Pro-Jump PowerBocking Jumping Stilts Forum - Community for Power bocking / Pro Jumping!
POWER BOCKING EXPERIENCE => Bocking Tips => Topic started by: Charlie B on April 28, 2008, 08:38:33 AM
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There have been a number of questions around "teaching" bocking
As a coach qualified in 2 sports and also as a profesional sports administrator I feel it is appropriate to offer some thoughts
Coaching/Teaching
big technical difference, teaching is applied learning against a curriculum with set goals . Coaching is the development of individuals at thier pace within a skills/knowledge frame work. Most of you will aspire to be coaches.
If you organise an event you will no matter how hard you try be liable for any injuries or accidents caused by your own negligence. Ignorance or a quasi - legal form will not help you.
In all good quality sports coaches are trained and go through a certification process.
Level 1
Gives an introduction to coaching practice and health and safety. You should be able to do an area risk assesment & organise safe events.
A child protection course and an emergency firts aid course are mandatory within this.
Level 2
This gets technical and begins to cover skill sets and the coaching process as well as some physiology.
At present there is no applied coaching sylabus for Bocking.
As a responsible sport I would like to think that we could begin to develop quality coaches. This we need to do in a formalised way so please let me know your thoughts.
Finally you can do child protection and first aid courses now as they are run independently, ask your local council sports development officer for details of courses run near you.
As the sport grows there will become a need to formalise structures to ensure we do not put someones wellbeing or financial future at risk. That is the other reason for the insurances etc that are generally needed.
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great post charlie, thanks for sharing and clearing up what has been a grey area for a lot of us.
I would be interested in helping coach others in the sport, or anything else i can do to promote the sport.
even if this means a couple of hundred quid and a week in a classroom lol
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totally agree with Nero, an excellent & informative post, thanks.
@Nero... Can't imagine you trying to sit in any sort of class trying to study :d
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:haha: yeah i never done it as a kid, joke is i enjoy it these days, all about learning.
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Sounds like a plan, although, I cant see many bockers spending a day in a classroom, none of us could sit still for long enough!! Still no work from the Norwich Council people, but my uncle (a local PCSO) has asked me to 'coach' at his youth club, so I shall be starting small, and looking into the bigger picture (who knows, might even get the RAF to pay for the training!!)
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Good post Charlie
We will need some sort of coaching process in place eventually as the average person decides to have a go
When I started about a year ago Bocking was looked upon as a "Nutter" sport. In just one year it has started to get a more of an
"Anyone can have a go" type image and as we all know Nutters don't sue but the sheep that want a go do
I think there will always be small groups of "I'm gonna learn on my own types" like most of us now but many people want the support of a recognised expert to ensure the least pain for the maximum return and we will have to cater for them
Do yo fancy the job Charlie :biggrin: (I'll vote for you)
Jason :Hoofies2:
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I've seen Charlie twice now and chatted on here and he know his stuff :)
I was an aerobic teacher and when he was in the gym you could see he was some sort of coach the way he acted :thumbs:
I think it's up to us to work out a basic teaching program that we can use. After all we are the people who know what to do ?
Teaching it's for eveyone just because you can do it doesn't mean you can pass your skills on :-\
We have to start the ball rolling and come up with a WBTC World Bocking Training Certificate.
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watch this space....in about 2 days :)
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Thats just cruel Locky, spit it out :P
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I cant. They wont let me.
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sounds ominous
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I cant. They wont let me.
It's not the "Voices" again is it Locky :biggrin:
Take more of the Pills (holsten type) :biggrin:
Jason :Hoofies2:
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no....its davros!
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'The Rice Krispies told me to do it!!'
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???....and oo oo me me! I'd like to be a bocking coach, i reckon i'm an ok teacher i guess, seeing as i guess most of us have had to teach our friends how to do it? :)
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Really pleased for all the interest. I am sure we can work on this. Will have a think about it and respond.
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I will keep me eyes and ears open!
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legal form will not help you.
technicley if that legal form states that the person using the stilts may be hurt or damaged and theyve signed it like in a contract i wrotw a legal form does help and if theyve signed it its preety tuff wot happens....
but no doubt teaching is a idea i have had for ages XD but when i posted about it i was only thinking small walking and simple jumpiing kinda teaching if this ctaches on with the experts that want to join in well have millions of flippers XDcould make a group wif diffrent clases a person hu teaches simple walking then you got ur tricks guy XD
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I was going to say that. :) Isn't this the sort of community where people help others learn anyway?
Why would people want to pay for lessons when they can just ask the friendly bocker on the street?
The other thing is... it's not that hard. So there wouldn't be much of a curriculum when you devised
an official coaching award. Most people seem to learn how to walk in about 10mins. After that it's
just practice.
I can imagine people wanting to pay to bock in a 'safe' gym environment. And if coaches were there
it would be a bonus. But I don't think many people would pay for the lessons alone. Would they?
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Aidahn
Whilst a form will indemnify you to some degree by pointing out the inherent risks and also protectiing you from other peoples negligence it will not cover you for yours. neither will it cover you for under 18`s as technically U18`s are not completely responsible for thier own actions
If you coach for money then there are further issues for you to consider which include indemnity and public liability insurance.
It does not matter what level of coaching you want to do if you are not CRB checked, do not have a First Aid Certificate or a Child protection qualification you will open your self to legal action if things go wrong.
legally anyone over 18 is responsible for thier own decisions you can only advise or put rules in place. There is as always a caviate to this in that if you believe for example that helmets are a high safety need then you can make a rule that if you do not wear a helmet you cannot participate. In court if a person sued for a head injury you would have to prove that you werre not negligent and that all reasonable precautions were taken. This applies double underlined with U18.
I do not want to discourage anyone from coaching, if you like helping others you are on the right track.
If you are under 16 then at present most sports (or sports halls) would not allow you to coach alone. This is again due to the legal issue with under 18`s being classed as minors. There are a number of courses young people can take, Junior and senior sports leaders courses are two that give you expereince and qualifications to go on to be a coach
You would not ask your mate who can just about wire a plug to re-wire your house or a friend who could fix a tap to plumb your house. The same applies to coaching
Everybody thinks they can do it, most can but all require support and education to do it correctly and safely.
As previously posted I have 6 years experience coaching and also head of the Development of community sport in Lincolnshire. I have been involved in a number of cases where legal action has been taken against coaches so know how good practice helps you defend yourself and also what the penalties. financial and personal can be
This is a complex area, I am happy to keep posting, however if anyone wants more detailed info on a specific are please feel free to PM me for a more confidential response
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One of the things I like about this community is how friendly and helpful it is.
I also agree that informal groups can help each other. What you do in a small group on a street is up to you. However if you set yourself up as the coach of the group and show Jimmy who is 13 how to flip and he hurts himself you could find yourself in court.
I am more interested in the formal indoor environment where people can come along and be coached how to jump and do tricks safely. It is here that the more formal qualified coaching is valuable.
Interestingly 90% of qualified coaches are volunteers and do not get paid, so as a money earner not good unless you are at a premiership football club !
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Everybody thinks they can do it, most can but all require support and education to do it correctly and safely.
This is so true. You might think there is no need for coaches in bocking at the moment but I think that is purely based on how the sport has developed so far. By that I mean, the meet ups etc where we do all help each other and it is a real credit to the whole community how we all pull together and travel many miles to meet for a few hours. We've made the best of a situation where all we had was people and stilts. No gyms, no support, no structure. For many of us in the early days it was hit and miss.
But this has been adopted because its the way we did things. Nothing wrong with it but some of the fundamental techniques like getting up unaided or even just the bouncing technique of not bending your legs. These are something that someone can learn far quicker under a coach, and also in a safe environment indoors.
It is true, once you've got the hang of things and your balance is adapted then the learning curve is a lot less steep and many things become lack of confidence and commitment but I think there will always be a need for people to learn the basics and even for people to learn the technique required for flips, baranis etc.
I know from experience in Cardiff bay most weekends we have a member of the public on stilts and when they are, my attention is 101% on them because I know the risks but I'd feel a lot safer if I was actually qualified to do it.
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I agree with all you two (Charlie and Locky) have said on this subject
And I personally think the all meet up and help each other is a very good way to learn (If not quickly it's a fun way to learn) and while every one stays nice it works
The problems start when one person feels that harm was caused through anothers fault I would have to have been literally attacked by a fellow bocker before I even concidered suing anyone and believe most of the bockers I know are the same
But when we start renting Gyms and doing major events (and teaching/coaching) the people organising such things ask "Who's in charge" and a lot of the time some poor mug of a bocker gets volunteered (and sometimes has little or no qualifications) said poor mug gets away with it most of the time but once in a while looses his/her shirt
We can't live life expecting the worse all the time but we all try not to be the one to get the bad end of things and like you said Charlie qualifications and experience helps a lot
I think that in todays climate Teachers/Coaches (especialy working with children or in areas where people can get hurt) are very brave and I take my hat off to people like Charlie and the like, it's not a job I would like to do daily, for me the risks are to high but thakfully some people are willing to do it and help the comunity a great deal
Jason :Hoofies2:
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the more i read this thread the more it seems there is a bigger picture.
good luck to those who are looking to start teaching bocking, i figure you have juggling, cycling, skating classes so you can teach anything.
im not sure i have met a bocker that needed a teacher yet though, i learnt most of my tricks looking at pictures, and although you will pick things up quicker around or watching others i think lessons are less important to the sport than organising say a competition or show of sorts, to introduce bocking to the masses.
think about what freestyle has done for motorcross, big tricks impress.
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Agree nero, events where people see others doing tricks are all part of the mix for getting people into the sport. Generating a "I want to do that" impulse is hugely important. Howver once you get people through the door it must be a positive experience for them to carry on. Good quality coaching in a safe environment is normally (but not always) the best way to do this.
Some can either use books or look a video and learn, I have a son that like you can do this. Quite a lot of others cannot as this is down to your preffered form of learning. I am a kinetic Learner so have to have people show me how something is done.
Having now run two events and done some promo work I beleive giving people a safe environment to practice in and build confidence would open the sport up to more people and also accelerate the learning of those currently involved.
There will though always be a place for individual development, for example children play football on streets and learn. They also play at Football clubs and get coached
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hmm charlie you do no how to put a good point across and i am still working out everysingle kink in my plan
but asoon as ive done my police training i will have CRB, first aid, child responability and should be able to get a stage 1 qualifiction in gynastics coaching. :banana:
(ofcorse i wouldnt of got all these good ideas and way to sort things out without charlies help he is very smart in this area of work) :nana:
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Just replying to jasons thoughts
As a coach working with people and seeing them blossom in skills and confidence and in some cases changing lives is an experience and a feeling that I can never tire of and that keeps me involved. If you get the training you minimise the risks so they does not become a major issue.
Only thing with organising Bocking events is that you do not always spend as much time on the stilts as you want to ;D
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Go for it Aidanh1
Glad to have helped
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i know wher your coming from on this, its certainly not a new idea, but one that has been taken for granted, we do hold from time to time teaching classes at the gym, and a fully qualified gymnastics coach is involved,with all the certificates mentioned, but obviously the meets are diferent,i myself am ex army pti, and am a performing arts tutor, and visit schools promoting sport,in my case rugby, and i have insurance and all the rest etc, and quite a few bockers around are gymnastics coaches,
i looked into this last year, i was aproached by a circus school, and asked to join them as a teacher,and i found that a few people already teach bocks for a fee, under the circus skills, stilts, it wasn't defined as bocks, just stilts, and the fees for students were quite high, i did a few workshops, but the main interest wasn't bocks, and they soon learned enough for me not to be required,
its a good idea, it depends if there is a demand for it, our doors have been open for well over a year as a bocking centre, probably one of the best in the country, with everything thats in it, and if the demand was there we would open every day, but the amount of new people enquiring about classes is very few, even when the sponsored classes were on last summer with that tv campaign thing we only had a few,
its something that i realy enjoy, teaching bocks, i get so much out of it, i have never made a penny out of it though its just fun, it may be an idea to look at the circus schools and see what ther certificate covers for stilts,if you haven't yet that could be your answer, then if it doesn't already, may be it could be made to specify velocity stilts, that would help the sport, im sure i havn't said anything you dont know, but just incase, hope its of some help.
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I think it is going to be the case that most people will learn on their own or with 1 or 2 friends.
But there is a place Id say now for more formal coaching. We have had regular gym sessions here on the south oast for 8 months now ( and a few irregular ones before that).
The standard and enjoyment all that attend has rocketted. Tho its still a very much helping each other out enviroment, things have narroed to a few of us doing more of the teaching and admin ( boring d'oh) and 'responsible adult bit'.
Just as 12-18 months ago people were learning to bock on their own. Now people are learning to teach on their own. These skills really could do with being spread more efficiently. Not just the safe way of teaching back flips ( the only 'rules' the JJs have relate to our gym, wear pads, bring water and take a break when you want 1). But more and different and imaginative exerciss or games to play. In Bournemouth we have had obstical course races even tried 3 legged races. In spain lots of people were doing and trying head and hand stands . Not something we had thought about on the south coast. But for this Sunday Ill be asking for a few thin floor mats to be put out at our gym to try these.
The 'theoretical/legal/H&S' stuff looks daunting and off-putting. But once read and explained barable and is just the boring prelude to what many of us have been doing for quite awhile alread. Either in this sport or others.
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How many people need to use bocks, or how well know do they need to be to become a recognised sport??
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Your question is not really valid hybrid_hex.
It's not about numbers or being well known its about forming the appropriate parties and getting a National Governing Body formed. Only then will it become an official sport and only then will we be able to approach any organization for just about anything really but I guess funding is the main one.
It is perfectly possible to have 1 million bockers in the uk and it still not be a sport. If things carried on as they were then we would be heading in that direction. This is exactly why we have started the National Powerbocking Association.
www.ukpowerbocking.co.uk
It's the first step in the right direction.
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Thanks Locky, you may find me joining up as an EA region member, so we have somone with their thumb in the pie!! lol!
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Way ahead of you... ;)
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Some very interesting stuff, the devlopment of the association should begin to put most of these things in perspective
Really interesting point from Stevie reference both his experience and also the Circus skills route.
Fully agree that at the moment Bradford is the best place to go if you want to develop. Thoroughly enjoyed my recent trips up there and I am now bouncing much, much better.
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hope i don't confuse things here, but dont forget i started the powerbocking association last year, and as i mentioned at the time i was to buisy to start it up properly on my own, and asked for help, www.powerbockingassociation.co.uk at the time i just linked it to my wesite, but the true site is curently under construction,
you seem to be doing a good job with it so i don't want to confuse things for you, its about the sport and i will help.
ps, with your site being up and runing, it might be an idea if you take the sites that i have to do with powerbocking, it makes sence to keep it under one, and not as in rugby were you have league and union, etc, its just a sugestion, but like i said i will help out as much as i can.
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One thing we must sort out is standardizing !
I one thing wanting to coach but we need a show that your at a level which you can teach !?
A lot of us have got the odd person to have a go on our stilt thing is where you doing it the best way !?
If we work out what works best then maybe more people who try will stick with it and not think it's too hard :)
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Interesting Stevie, I know Matt Lock has developed the website & has asked for people who want to develop the sport to help, agree that joining the two strands together would be good.
DK with regards to standardising coaching I think this is a project that will need to be put on hold until we have a working association to administer and develop a coach education programme
Sports Coach UK have developed the generic process for sports coach education with standardised levels 1 through to 4 (might be 5) We would need to align coach education to this process if we want to be considered a sport.
Major current areas for me that we could solve easily by using standard courses already being run would be First Aid and Child Protection. The rest may take some time.
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all looking good guys keep up the good work...
Essentialy what is required is a difinitive list / spesification. stating what each bocker shold be able to do and to what degree of proficiency.
without this there can be no grading/coaching/teaching or insurance(possibly) for bocking as a sport. if this thread does anything it should be to create and promote a specificaton with multiple levels and a provisionaly coppy should be published on ukpowerbocking. Once this has been compiled then it would be possible to create a governing body/endorced assessors. By awarding centraly recognised levels (possibly simmilar to the ones on this forum or simmilar to the ones in martial arts) it would give new bockers something to look for when asking for help.
This cold hopefuly eliminate (at least temperally) the need for coches. obvioulsy as you progressed to higher levels there could be the oppertunity to encorporate H&S child protection. First Aid should probably be optional at lower levels and then compulsary at a higher standard.
hope i havent just sprouted gibberish and that this is another point of view/path that cold be taken
ps sorry about the spelling ;D
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Just need to clear something up
level 1 Coaching is really just being able to organise events (gym meets ?) in a safe way & does not cover proficiency in coaching.
Child Protection & Firts Aid in my view should be almost mandatory for anyone organising an event. For your own protection if nothing else
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All this red tape puts me off wanting to go anywhere near the idea of coaching
:spudT:
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thats exactly why we're putting the association in place.
For any one person to tackle all this would be a total nightmare, even without all the paperwork. The association will, when complete, streamline this process and clearly outline who needs to do what to gain whatever it is they are looking for.
It also means the paperwork and official duties are shared between a few people :)
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I am going to be teaching one of the kids from the youth group how to bock, lol
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I am going to be teaching one of the kids from the youth group how to bock, lol
random and a little out of place..
thats exactly why we're putting the association in place.
For any one person to tackle all this would be a total nightmare, even without all the paperwork. The association will, when complete, streamline this process and clearly outline who needs to do what to gain whatever it is they are looking for.
It also means the paperwork and official duties are shared between a few people :)
That makes me feel better about the idea..not so scary so have my full support
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Please try to understand that getting training is about doing things well and not putting either you or others in danger.
This is not just red tape, for example if anyone hurts themselves what do you do if its a cut, a broken limb, or head injury. Basic First Aid makes you aware and safer.
If you know how to risk asess an area (not hard) and understand what steps you need to go through when planning a gym session you minimise chances of anyone hurting themselves and maximise the chances that people have an enjoyable experience
Child Protection is again as much for your safety as thiers. For example how would you go about fitting the knee straps behind a young girl or boys knee. There are very simple ways to make sure you are not at risk. A child protection course can be covered in an evening as can first aid.
Things can and do go wrong, most of the time it is little things which can be dealt with easily. I coach football & have had guys get broken limbs, twists etc. By doing the courses I have acted in a way that minimises me doing any further damage to them & supports them at a time of some distress.
Finally I am not perfect, I nearly got caught out in Lincoln when we went onto the artificial playing surface. Did not do a surface safety check, the surface was really slippy, we had one run and then stopped it.
If you are in guides, scouts or doing most type of volunteer work you can get most of these courses at a reduced rate or free.
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Another good piont about coaching is it's a lot safer for everyone if your not no your own !?
Should something happen it's useful to have someone you know can help you out.
If you have a class and someone needs you then ( gets hurt ) you can get you helper to sort the rest of the group out, even if that just stopping the class and getting them out the way !?
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Its all looking good, but lets not put people of having meets, and gym sessions,and the like, thats what made this sport,i do know where your coming from, with safety and the like, one of my main concerns with the powerbocking association last year, was that fun must not be taken out, the rest is related to common sence.
as credit to Lukey he doesn't know but i admire him, it was his vids and tutorials that got me and many more buzing about bocking, his early days were full of exciting vids, that made sence, and when i met him i didn't get the chance to thank him, he was one of the early pioneers of Powerbocking, it was that sort of fun that gets people interested, and want to have a go, it worked with me,he would make a good coach, and Uncle Matt always a laugh a bock and straight to the point, and then the Brothers from Sweden, Swebounce and Hemoves, with there unique skills that stun the world, so the association would have to be strong enough to represent the like of them, then it would be a strong body,
i hope they don't mind me mentioning there names, as i have for them, and others from the early days 100% full respect,
Keep the capital F in Fun, LOL. keep up the good work.
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cheers grandad!
LOL
8)
I think we're gonna come up soon stevie. We miss you guys :(
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Hey Locky, thats great news, youv made my day, can't wait to see you all, heeeey yeeeeaaaaa.
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cheers grandad!
LOL
8)
I think we're gonna come up soon stevie. We miss you guys :(
MINIBUS TRIP FTW! :D
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Stevie totally agree must not stifle the fun
Locky when you go up to Bradford let me know, jack & i will try to get there too