Pro-Jump PowerBocking Jumping Stilts Forum - Community for Power bocking / Pro Jumping!
WHAT'S HAPPENING NEAR YOU => Bocking Clubs & Groups => E A Bockers => Topic started by: hybrid_hex on February 24, 2008, 11:10:19 AM
-
When we were at the castle, two ladies approached me and ask about the sport, they then asked me would we be able to teach other people how to bock? would we be able to do promotional work for them? and could we send them an INVOICE!!!! they want to pay us for doing what we do best!!!
Any views?????
(only thing im worried about is liability insurance, and how much it would cost)
-
`soul rancher has personnal liability and has looked into public send him a PM
-
Sounds great. Think you would need to speak to them a bit More to see exactly what is what first but should well go for it. Would be a great way to get bocking recognised more and would be great promo for the sport and I think we would be welcome more places in the long run.
insurance could be a draw back and thats why I think we would need to get more info. But a poss solution has already come up so its looking good
-
If they want you guys to teach then this is our chance to insist on good facilities ie a sports hall/gym with full EQUIPMENT (after all, newbies need crash mats and safety ;)) - local facilities in Norwich for weekly training - Wooooo!!!!!
I'm still getting no joy from the UEA Sportspark re: use of their halls, with the Council behind us they may be more willing to co-operate....
-
They asked about at shows etc, but I will find out more when they get into contact with me.
Also the H2O guys said that they might want to use us to open a new centre, they took the forum card, but not my number, so there might be a thread or a phone call to projump.
-
If they want you guys to teach then this is our chance to insist on good facilities ie a sports hall/gym with full EQUIPMENT (after all, newbies need crash mats and safety ;)) - local facilities in Norwich for weekly training - Wooooo!!!!!
Or do they intend to foist a load of ASBO chavs onto you to try to "keep them off the streets" :-\
I'm still getting no joy from the UEA Sportspark re: use of their halls, with the Council behind us they may be more willing to co-operate....
Do we want a load of CHAV's on bocks :-\ :D
-
means we get to point and laugh at them as they fall over!!! and its not as though bocks come in Burberry is it! :lol: and could they afford them???
-
Is it worth telling those women that a bunch of us will be doing the Sport Mile, if they wanted to come chat to us a bit more, get some opinions from us regarding what's best to do? What about organising a meeting with them so everyone can have a say?
-
I did mention it to them, and when they get in contact I will let them know.
Any ideas on what we should charge?? I know we would have to charge for travelling, plus whatever insurance costs, would we put on a bit extra for us? or just charge for expenses to start??
-
On the topic of Gym Facilities, in January i started looking into getting us a place here in Norwich.
I sent an email to Easton Gymnastics. Heres the response i got today (Also my original email)
Hi Dan,
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, but I have been doing some investigation on wether we could cover you for insurance. And I am sorry to say the we can not. Thank you for your interest and if you ever need some gymnastics training without the Bocking boots then drop me a line.
On 3 Jan 2008, at 19:32, Dan Hodds wrote:
Hi there. I was wondering if it was possible for groups to use / rent the gym facilities.
My group does a sport called Bocking which involves stilts with springs allowing you to jump high and run fast. What we would be looking to have is a safe environment with crashmats etc to practice in.
Here is a link to a video which will show you exactly what we do incase you have not heard of the sport
&feature=related
Regards
Dan
Now although it was a no, the fact that they were even considering taking us would be a start. I was thinking of contacting some of the other Bocking groups and asking them about what insurance forms they had to fill in or what processes to go through. I think if we can get some sort of organised reply to them detailing everything about getting our own insurance they may let us in
-
We could learn to do stuff on trampolines there first though?
-
Deffo worth trying for sure, keep on at em :thumbs: I don't get it - they'd insure us for normal gymnastics, but not for bocks.....IMO either sport can result in bad injuries so why cover one and not the other? Plus we'd totally use crash mats everywhere, it's not like we'd be doing it on bare floors (well I sure won't be :D :D :D )
-
We could learn to do stuff on trampolines there first though?
Sure thing, spesh if the UEA Trampoline club won't allow non-students/staff to join....thye are still pratting around getting back to me too :rolleyes:
If none of you guys are allowed to the UEA club then I'd rather go elsewhere and learn along with you all!
-
I would like to go there for trampolining and also people are scared of new things..thats probs why bockers cant and gymnasts can >:(
-
On a different note - if the Council want you to teach other kids then does that mean you'd have to buy a supply of "hire bocks" for the kids to use? As kids who want to learn may not necessarily have the £ to buy bocks, or they may not want to buy until they've had a try a few times.....does this mean a Council Grant to buy "Hire Bocks"??
-
Deffo worth trying for sure, keep on at em :thumbs: I don't get it - they'd insure us for normal gymnastics, but not for bocks.....IMO either sport can result in bad injuries so why cover one and not the other? Plus we'd totally use crash mats everywhere, it's not like we'd be doing it on bare floors (well I sure won't be :D :D :D )
But your getting good at it !?
-
think charges should cover, travel and stuff as i costs me about 20 quid in petrol to get to Norwich and back , but also its going to take a toll on our bocks like i think we should take extra so we can get new parts and stuff for bocks and replace them etc,
-
Whooa
Lots of questions on this thread, I can help answer some
Grants
Lots of grants can be available depends on where you wnat to look, best one is Awards 4 All.
For the most part to access these grants you must become a sports club with a bank account and a traesurer. Not really to difficult. Must ensure two signatories for any withdrawls.
If you want the council to support you with funding you will have to look at how you run your training venue in a safe and proffessional manner and also how you make the sport inclusive.
Councils and sport in general are trying to engage what are termed hard to reach groups these are
Disabled, Women, Ethnic Minorities and those from low socio economic areas called areas if high Indeces of Multiple Deprivation. (I.M.D)
Inclusive sport
On a seperate point , the young people who are generally considered to engage in anti -social behavior are also a key target for Local Aurhorities and thier partners for "diversionary" activities. Extreme sports and football are favourites.
I have experience of working with those young people most would call louts or chavs. Those involved in schemes I have run significantly changed thier behavior and were,once given respect and responsibility, OK people.
At Norwhich I was reaaly pleased that the caring supportful nature of the forum became real at the meet. While out in Norwich we were labelled a number of unpleasant comments from some ignorant parts of the community please do not mirror thier behavior or stereotype others, you are better than that.
If you want to develop this please talk to me for advce when you know who in the council you spoke to.
Incedently the Lincoln Indoor Training Meet was set up using the local council and thier extreme sports group who are aimed at getting kids off the street into sport.
-
Costs for working in sport
If you are coaching the following applies as a general rule
Level 1 coach £10:00 per hour
Level 2 coach £15:00 per hour
Level 3 Coach £20 per hour
As suggested earlier you will have to go through courses to be deemed competent these will include
Child Protection
First Aid (Emergency Minimum)
CRB check
These can be subsidised or possibly paid for vai the Council from a workforce development point of view
Most coaching companies charge approx £30 per hour for thier time for general sports work. This includes coach time at venue, plus planning time and travel time.
Mileage Costs
if you are asked to perform outside of the city or asked to travel then it is reasonable to claim mileage from your council. this is generally £0:40 per mile, though this is changing due to the cost of fuel.
-
wow! Lots of information to digest! If we want to do this,make the EA's a proper club i have no worries about being a treasurer or organising things, we would need solid yes answers,we already have a name,logo and merchandise range,(we could sell t's to people for a profit, anybody think its worth while??
-
Appreciate its a lot of info but getting it right will help develop the sport locally
as a wider community we need to look at how we develop into a Sport England recognised sport. This would then open the doors to both local and national funding. Thats a question for another day.
If all bockers want to develop this I am more than happy to use my contacts at sport england to find out thier level of acceptance.
if they accept new age kurling I am sure they will accept bocking.
-
Ahhhh Charlie me lovely I was hoping you'd step in with your superior knowledge ;) ;)
I have experience of working with those young people most would call louts or chavs. Those involved in schemes I have run significantly changed thier behavior and were,once given respect and responsibility, OK people.
At Norwich I was really pleased that the caring supportful nature of the forum became real at the meet. While out in Norwich we were labelled a number of unpleasant comments from some ignorant parts of the community please do not mirror their behavior or stereotype others, you are better than that.
What was said to you? The worst thing said to me was by a bunch of Stella-drinking teens on top of the Mall, who asked "what's so fun about jumping around???" with sneers on their faces, to which I wanted to reply "what's so fun about sitting on your butt drinking Stella at 11.30 in the morning?"
I have a rather jaded view of kids from IMDs as I was surrounded by them when I worked at Hull College and all I saw was multiple teachers wearing themselves out to help these kids and give them a future, while the kids verbally and sometimes physically abused them, did nothing to help themselves, and expected the world to come to them and give them everything while they did little or no work to get it themselves. Very frustrating, specially with the ones you could SEE had potential and intelligence, but with attitudes that sucked :(
On a seperate note and not to sound too paranoid, but with groups of deprived kids today and the "Gang Culture" that is pervading, what about the personal safetey of the instructors and other Bockers, in case anything should break out during a class? Verbal/physical abuse, fights etc?? Yeah maybe I *am* being a tad paranoid but you never know and it's always good to cover all bases..... :-[
-
On another seperate note if anyone from the Council joins this forum and reads this thread, erm should some of the disparaging comments be moderated out? ??? ???
-
You can edit your own posts gixer but I agree with you all bases do need to be covered
-
If anything would happen,thats when my military side would come out :scool: mixed in with a bit of my scout leader side :thumbs:
-
Could be handy that! Athough in cases like this they either refuse to do it coz we have something on them and they sorta need us or they are really good and dont cause trouble. Done something like this before. Its taking them out of their comfort zone.
-
I am always up for helping kids who WANT to be helped and who come along with the right attitude. It's the ones that come along with the wrong attitude/to trouble cause/take the p!ss that are the nightmares. Then I really don't know how to handle them.
-
You tell the ones that dont want to be helped to leave.
-
I work with kids at a youth group, and they are all good kids
-
Is the best idea to combine trampolining and bocking into one session?
-
with regards to insurance, it costs less than £50 to cover yourselves for a year which is probably the best way to go, I have been in contact with an insurance company who do affliate schemes but Ive asked them if its posible to give the whole discount to the customer rather than the promoter and they said its something they can do and give a discount code. Think they mentioned it would be about 10% which is better than nothing!
If you guys are interested I'll set it up asap.
-
Lots of ways to deal with things and a fair few of them have been covered
Discipline
Setting boundaries that do not change
Incentives for good behavior
Asking those disruptives to leave
With regards to physical aggression, this should be covered right at the beginning i.e immeadiate withdrawl from the program. up to police involvement and prosecution.
Also a good reason why you always need 2 or more instructors/coaches etc and also need to minitor group size.
Council officers generally want to help but always have to answer to thier political and social leaders so do have constraints. best way to get success is to work with them and undertsand thier needs.
-
Should i email the Easton gym back and tell them that we could insure ourselves?
-
Naz
I would go with the insurance
-
means we get to point and laugh at them as they fall over!!! and its not as though bocks come in Burberry is it! :lol: and could they afford them???
but then we would get loads of chavs coming to the meet and causing havoc
-
hence discipline and apportiate measures asking all people who are are out of control to leave
-
When they call ,I will ask what they want us to do, and the people we will be working with, best to leave insurance until we know what and who we are dealing with. I'm sure that it wouldn't be hard to set a group of rules, and I have no trouble with ejecting an individual from the premises, Lets hold off on the stereotyping as well people, most of them are sheep, and when they get shown something the either follow or break away if they have any sense, If we make an example of someone, you would be surprised how many people change.
-
Hex
At a guess the people will come from one of these areas
1)Childrens links
2)Children and Young Peoples Services
3)Youth Service
4)Community
5)Sports Development
An educated guess would be 2) or 4)
lets see if I`m right
-
Insurance sounds good Naz, i'm hoping to do lots of advertising over the summer, so it could come in handy... :)
-
They had greenbadges, that's all I can say, and they were backwards.
-
might eb the youth development council, if that exists, I know we have something like that in essex, as i do enjoy myself at a youth group being a leader
-
I dont know wether this is a good idea any more i mean if we put 100% into this and we just get abused is it going to be worth it or could we just bring aload of bad people into the sport and into meets and give the sport abad image
-
As I have said, we might not end up teaching people, just doing displays and advertising, we could always turn down the teaching, give it a go, and if it is the wrong sort of people, then withdraw the teaching.
-
well worth a try
-
yea i just dont want the group to be infected with loads of k**bs to be honest i mean the group we have now is really good theres no1 init i dont like except maggzie lol
just dont want the sport and more specifcly our group to get a bad image took alot of gettin us all together from me and carl organising the logo to the group recruitment
-
rob has a good point i must say we have all worked hard to get where we are now and i just dont wanna see it go downhill because of some scummy chavs
but i would be willing to come and teach and give them a chance also be willing to do displays
-
i agree there, shows i will be happy to do, teaching only if they want to learn how to
-
Teaching is a bit of a odd thing to do ? If someone wants to do bocking you really need to buy some :-\
It not the sort of thing you'd do once thing couple of weeks in a sports center ?
I know it might get more people bocking but if they really want to take up bock ... come see us at a meet :)
There where two bambi's on saturday both got on well :) :thumbs:
-
i think teaching is a weird thing to do and hav to agree with DK i dont think we will be able to get people into it just by doing a session in a sports hall once a month or something the best way to learn is have your own bocks that way you practice inbtween meets and care about it i could see us ending up with aload of kids or stupid chavs turning up not caring and having to teach the same thing over and over again
-
so buy your own kit, and learn with us
-
I will bring all of these concerns up with the people if/when they get in contact with me, and try to figure out the best possible outcome.
-
yea i dont mind doing displays tho in the slightest,
-
OK so the main points raised so far are:
- worry over "who" we would be teaching
- insurance cover
- a place to teach - need a gym, equipment
- how regularly should classes be
- personal safety and discipline
- structured "term" of lessons - say, 8 lessons is one "term" - anyone who wants to join mid- "term" has to wait till the next one starts (saves having to revisit old ground)
- WHAT would be taught? Structure of lessons?
- payment/expenses
- qualified people to teach ("instructor" or "coach" rating, or something??)/CRB checked etc etc
Anything else?
-
OK so the main points raised so far are:
- worry over "who" we would be teaching
- insurance cover
- a place to teach - need a gym, equipment
- how regularly should classes be
- personal safety and discipline
- structured "term" of lessons - say, 8 lessons is one "term" - anyone who wants to join mid- "term" has to wait till the next one starts (saves having to revisit old ground)
- WHAT would be taught? Structure of lessons?
- payment/expenses
- qualified people to teach ("instructor" or "coach" rating, or something??)/CRB checked etc etc
Anything else?
To tell you the truth I think it sound like a nice idea but it just not going to work !?
It's nice to show people what their like so maybe take them and display at different places what their like. If someone want like the idea of a pair we could lets them have a go then let them have a quick wobble on them !?
Then again isn't that's more or less what would happens at a meet !?
-
Sorry for the length of this but here goes
There is a need for some clarity
As a group or a "club" you can decide how you want to develop and who you want to involve.
If you want to chase additional funding then you will have to deliver the aims and objectives of your possible funders.
In most councils case they are looking to provide diversionary activities for targetted sections of the community or they may also just want to support young people
The best way is not to chase funding but develop the group in the way you want and be true to yourselves and the spirit of your sport.
As a sport the deveopment needs to be around getting more people involved in "clubs" This will allow the sport to become recognised by Sport England which will then significantly increase the profile and if we get a recognised National Governing Body possibly support funding. This in turn will allow the sport to access other sport related funding streams at National, regional & possibly local level.
Allowing people to get involved in doing a sport (taster sessions) is a proven way of getting more people into any sport. This is also true of any marketing or sales initiative. The key to success is A.I.D.A
Gain ATTENTION, create INTEREST, Develope a DESIRE for ACTION
With regards to coaching sesion structure a significant part of this is already laid down to national guidelines across at present the 58 Sport England accredited sports.
The Lincoln Event structure follows some of these presets in skills development
I do not want to get into symantics but what you are looking to do is provide coaching not teaching, that is very different. Teaching is very specific and forms part of the National Curriculum and requires different skills to coaching.
What most of you guys do (and are begining to do very well) is coaching
The sport is at a very interesting stage of development and will create questions such as those being asked. There is no single route forward.
-
Here here Charlie......I think we (including me!) should put our stereotypes on the shelf, see what we can do and what sort of person gets brought our way for coaching, and use this opportunity to get ourselves a gym and full equipment where we can ALL benefit from it and learn cool stuff without breaking our backs (crash mats YUMMMM!) If we all need to get personal insurance then so be it.....we will get lots of recognition for Bocking as a sport/hobby, etc, we may all get something out of it if these kids turn up with the right attitude and want to learn, and if word spreads about what we're doing we can use that to get gigs and displays all over Norfolk :thumbs:
I say do it - if it falls flat then hey at least we tried, if we never do it then you get the "what if??" factor........
-
:banana: well said , nothing to add
-
Sorry if this has been mentioned before and not to put a damper on things as I think this is a good idea and would like to see it happen
But
You would also need a wide range of protective gear (all with the correct kite marking or whatever is in use now)Not cheep as a lot of the cheep ones are not fully marked (even if they are safer than the real ones)
That would mean (for 10 trainees) 10 sets of elbow/knee pads and 10 sets of wrist guards and helmets (as these come in lots of sizes and fit is important) you would probably need 30 sets of various sizes and as we know they do get damaged and one fall can write off a good helmet
I say this because if you put someone on Bocks without all the gear or badly fitting gear no amount of insurance will stop them suing you
Also you can get them to sign a disclaimer (as we do for paintball) but even that is pushed aside in court if you are found to be negligent in safety proceedures and the disclaimer can work against you as the prosecutor will say you knew it was dangerous and still let people do it (for this reason good insurance is needed with the insurers having imput in the safety setup)
All the accidents I have seen and heard of were while learning or trying something new so teaching people to use bocks and advance in the sport is going to have to be very safety orientated
Don't let this put anyone off as it is a good idea but make sure you cover your A** so you don't get stiched up in the long run
Jason :Hoofies2:
-
I still think we need to find more abot this to see what they can provide and more in general.
-
best for them to bring their own safety gear, then you can not be held responsible
-
best for them to bring their own safety gear, then you can not be held responsible
But how would they know it's the right gear !?
I'm with Jason it's needs a lot of sorting out !
"JUMPING-JAXs" never took off as an aerobic class because the number of pair a teacher would need to stock !?
http://www.projumpforum.co.uk/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=198 (http://www.projumpforum.co.uk/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=198)
-
The additional safety gear at Lincoln is being provided by the centre, this is extreme sports stuff they use for skate boarding & BMX so should be acceptable.
Same goes for insurance as they have the expertise.
The coaching set up comes from me and the parcour/gymnastics guys as we are all qualified coaches which helps ref Health & safety and risk analysis.
There will always be injuries in any sport if you have done the correct risk analysis and have proper medical equipment and trained people available you should be able to minimise both accidents and also possible litigation
If the Council are asking you to work with them this should be covered at you first meeting
-
best for them to bring their own safety gear, then you can not be held responsible
They won't want to buy the gear if they think they may not get into the sport properly? And if they sign a disclaimer but it can be pushed asaide by lawyers then is there any point in having a disclaimer? :(
We need to get someone from the Council who knows all about this to work with us in making it watertight and making sure nobody will get sued. We also need to ask them about THEM buying equipment for the kids to use, ie "hire bocks".
-
Sounds like the right way to go..Just need to get talking
-
If you do begin your discussions with the Council they will work with you to find partners.
If you do the diversionary stuff you will be able to get others to fund ie Youth Service & Police particularly. But you will have to address thier needs and target the people they want to work with.
As a club you could hold come and try it sessions where people pay say £2.00 for a 10 min try. This should gain you £12.00 per hour per pair if managed properly
-
As a club you could hold come and try it sessions where people pay say £2.00 for a 10 min try. This should gain you £12.00 per hour per pair if managed properly
A little problem there !?
That would mean the second one lad takes the off thew next would need to put them on !?
10 minuets goes not a bad idea would be just time to give them a chance to do a solo wobble, and get them wanting more :biggrin: :thumbs:
But I don't think it you should include the time it takes for you to help them put them on ( checking it's all safe ) !?
-
OK - so someone needs to formulate a letter to these two Council women, laying it all out and asking them how they can help us and who they can work with to help us, also asking about legalities and insurance for a venue. Strike while iron's hot before they forget about us ;)
PS I bocked to work today, hilarious - honkings and wolf whistles all the way :banana: :banana:
-
PS I bocked to work today, hilarious - honkings and wolf whistles all the way :banana: :banana:
Well stop wearing short skirt on your Bocks then :o :lol:
-
PS I bocked to work today, hilarious - honkings and wolf whistles all the way :banana: :banana:
Or was that you honking :biggrin:
-
if they sign a disclaimer but it can be pushed asaide by lawyers then is there any point in having a disclaimer? :(
There is no point. EVERY premises that the public are getting access too (free or paid for) needs to have insurance.
You know when you go to a Go Karting centre and they make you sign a waiver? It's a load of BS. They have insurance and if you were to injure yourself or die then you could sue them for lots and lots of money (or your next of kin could because you'd be dead). The waiver is simply a smokescreen. Most people do not know the law. They remember signing the waiver and think oh well I got whiplash, my bad luck. In reality, any injure sustained in any sports environment could lead to legal action but 1. its not free and 2. its a long and complicated process.
Kinda like people suing local authorities for tripping over uneven concrete slabs.
-
JUst speak to the guys before we fret too bad!
-
The disclaimer can work both ways most of the paintball ones are along the lines of
I understand that this is a fairly hazadous thing to do and if I don't follow all the safety rules that have been explained to me and any instructions I am given I may get hurt, maimed or even killed
The main reason for the disclaimer is that in court it acts as a signed confession so if you do something silly like take your mask off and loose an eye the court will find against you but if the bloke in charge tells you to take your mask off then they will find for you
Simple common sence but if you as a trainer make a mistake the insurance company will take up the slack and bail you out but it won't stop you from being prosecuted for causing an accident by plain stupidity
Jason :Hoofies2:
-
I got the best one ever in thatland. So funny. I will post it up when I find it.
-
i dont think we should teach
-
Hex have you contacted these Council people yet? Got to keep the contact going while we're still in their minds...........
-
well..... if it ever works out....im in... im a good teacher :banana:
ciao