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POWER BOCKING EXPERIENCE => Safety => Topic started by: Locky on May 19, 2008, 03:31:30 PM
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I've been talking to several people about this today, namely Becky, Q, Sprog, Naz and Stevie. Basically a gym meet over the weekend has raised some concerns about our own safety at meets, and this includes outdoor meets as well. As the person doing most of the organising for Capital Bocking this year, I feel it is absolutely critical we get this sorted.
I wasn't present at the meet and so the only information I have is that people attempted flips and got injured. The example I want to use is Janelle because I care for her a great deal and the result is possibly threatening her doing the Walk for life, which is very important for her.
Now I'm not going to emphasize on joe's (soul rancher) accident so much because joe is at the stage where he knows the risks. He can already backflip and has overcome many of the mental barriers needed for such things. In hindsight, someone should have been there with a mat to slide under him if something went wrong but as I said, joe knows the risks more than others do. Even so, Joe was inches away from permanent paralysis.
From what I can tell, the meet this past weekend was attended by members from several groups and had a lot of fun, but I think the excitement clouded the safety responsibilities.
I really hope jelly doesnt take this in offence but as someone who is responsible for others at gym meets, I absolutely would not allow anyone to attempt a flip onto thin gym mats until they are landing them 80+% of the time on the crash mat. Maybe jelly is at this stage but I am not aware of her landing any flips.
Injuries do happen in this sport but I think it is crucial we get together a list or document of "Best Practices for meet ups" together asap. This is something we would have put together as an ongoing project for the national association but with meets happening all the time now, and the good weather here already, it clearly needs addressing now.
The last thing I want is for this to cause any bad air between anyone. I dont know who organised the meet on the weekend, if there was any ground crew or if anyone was overseeing safety etc but this really isnt about one meet that ended in a few injuries. It's about all of us and making sure we avoid such injuries as much as possible.
This is important not only for our lives and bodies but also for our sport.
It can take only one accident for a hall manager to kick us out. One article of bad press that could cause ongoing problems for us all.
We need to get this right and we need to do it now.
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Agree totally
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I totally agree with you on this Matt, and I think it’s an excellent post which I think everyone needs to contribute to, to make sure a set of guidelines are agreed on by the majority and adhered to, remember the sport is new, and if we want to make it mainstream and take it further in terms of getting funding etc then getting the “boring” but in my opinion the most important things such as safety guidelines are paramount and need to be set as a matter of urgency.
I think the gym meet yesterday highlighted many factors which would have come up at some point anyway however just happened when they did all in one session! Instead of dwelling on what has happened in a sense of negativity, it’s an opportunity for everyone to sit up and take notice as I think it could have been a lot worse and if it was then we would all have had to take notice.
So let’s not wait till someone has a bad injury before we start bouncing ideas on how and what needs to be in place to ensure that bocking is a lot safer.
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yeh i totally agree a lot of it is knowing your limits and to be blunt if i had never done gymnastics / trampo i doubt very highly i would have got into the sport / attempted flips etc. A lot of the injuries from people trying stuff they have not done b4 could be helped a bit if they would at least get comfortable on a trampoline doing it i have seen quite a few vids of people trying fronts and just practically coming down on their neck as they have never tried it before and are now trying it on stilts which is a hell of a lot harder than doing it on a trampoline! but with all sports their is a risk element involved as in Joe's case he landed a back to back 5minutes before he landed on his back its one of those things that will happen trying harder moves!
but totally agree with ure post locky!
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i do agree as well we need to work on a code of safty for meets etc
and as for me i am wanting to try more tricks and it is just the nerve for me, as i dont want to get hurt, but i think about it too much i think.
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I think this meet highlighted a lot of issues that we haven't really taken notice of recently.
Like Matt said, I have never seen or heard of Jelly landing a flip so she should not have been allowed to do them on gymnastic mats. Joe should not have gone for that double back onto hard ground until he is landing 9 out of 10 of them onto crash mats.
People need to stop running and slow back down to walking, taking it at a gradual pace. Yes people are advancing faster now amd I think that pushing each other is good, but it should be done sensibly, rather than going for things like this.
If you're going to be attempting new tricks I think from now on you should have a spotter and someone ready to slide a crash mat underneath you.
I know when we do things at the JJ meets we do silly things and have a laugh but I feel a lot of that is from the trust we have gained from knowing eachother for well over a year and knowing our own and friends limits, and we know what is safe to do and what isn't. I think partially we may be to blame for this as a lot of our gym videos have a bit of stupidity and fun in, but we know what we're doing and what is and isn't safe for each individual member to attempt. We know Colin feels ill after flipping so he doesn't do flips, I know I don't feel confident jumping things so I will only do what I feel safe with, if people try to push us we will say no and stay where we know we won't get injured.
Basically PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE progress at a slower rate, for your own and other people's safety, and only do things you are 100% confident on.
I am not saying anything was at all the fault of the club organising this meet or the gym owners, but the fact everyone got caught up in the moment and forgot what is safe and what isn't.
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yea i see where you are comming from sprog and agree as i have been bocking for over a year now and only just started to trick, and opal is at the same level as me and he has only been at it for 2-3months now.
i will have a full cut of what happened at the gym and it wont have the fall in it but it will have jellys bit in if i can find it or filmed it
i think we all should have a group chat so we can lay down ideas etc? and then once it is done we can post ideas what we have and work on that
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i will have a full cut of what happened at the gym and it wont have the fall in it but it will have jellys bit in if i can find it or filmed it
I've filmed two falls and true they could help others I think you should ask them before posting !?
Gym's should be a good safe place to push yourself as long as you follow the rule of common sense.
Some of us could do with a push to try new things but others need to be pulled back for the own good !
The trick would be know who need what !?
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Some of us could do with a push to try new things but others need to be pulled back for the own good !
The trick would be know who need what !?
This is something that Ash (sprog) touches on, the JJ's and the Welshy's have come to a stage where they know the limitations of each other and also know when members can be pushed a little harder, so this is something that groups need to work on together, by taking a step back and helping each other develop gradually, which means automatically with time people will know the limitations of each member of the group and push or stop each other depending on what the individual needs.
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The development of the association haas happened at the right time. The development of good coaching and safety practice must now be a priority
When organising a session the following must be considered
The aptitude of the participant(s)
What is the technique to be coached /Learned
What skills are required
How how are these skills going to be coached /learned
How are you going to progress the learning
What equipment is needed
What risks are there to the participant & contingencies to manage
This is not an exhaustive list but some where to start
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What form are these guidelines going to take? A lot of it's just common sense, it doesn't really need writing down. And even if it were, there's no way of policing it... I'm not even sure it should be policed. Rules and restrictions would limit the feeling of self-expression.
As you've said above. People just need to know there limits (and heed the advice of their friends). But even then, people will get injured.
Is it going to be made as a booklet or rule book? And would they be rules or just guidelines/suggestions?
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I totally agree to what everyone has said here on this thread. I am not experienced at somersaults and realise the dangers that are involved with doing so. I know that there should have been someone to spot me as im inexperienced and can not yet land somi's. I also know that because i can not land them that there should have been more than just 1 crash mat, which is where my problem arose.
Soul rancher (joe) had been using the crash mat before i attempted my somersault and because he has more experience, he didnt need the extra mat. I didnt realise my mistake until i had my accident, i didnt realise there was just 1 mat there because i was caught up in the moment, if i had realised i wouldnt have taken the leap of faith. I know that 2 mats would have been safer for me at my level and would only ever attempt it with 2 mats and no less.
It was a mistake on my part for not taking notice but i think that it could have been dealt with and organisined a lot better. Not blaming anyone for what happened to me, as i know for a fact that the same thing happened to muncher and blaze when we went to another gym meet a couple of months back, but luckily their injuries were'nt as bad as mine, grrrr.
We should definitely outline some ground rules and regulations for all bockers, so similar things like this dont happen again and that the health and safety of the bocking community is looked after and that we can gain respect from the outside world and be recognised as a fun, exciting sport and not a dangerous one that is to be avoided.
jelly x
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The thing about common sense is that it is not that common.
The difference between guidelines and regulations depends on the possibility of injury and also your age. If you are under 18 the organiser is legally responsible for you. You are not deemed in law to be sufficiently mature to be totally responsible for your own actions. This is the situation whatever you believe as to your own maturity if you are u18.
If you are over 18 you are in law responsible for your own actions.
For example if you wanted to put your hand in a fire the response would be
U18 : remove you from the area & extinguish the fire
Over 18 : advise against the action pointing out that that would cause skin damage and hurt and was an irresponsible act.
Even with adults getting caught up in the moment can have consequences. providing action points for people to follow helps mitigate risks.
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The thing about common sense is that it is not that common.
lol. :D
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Locky You'v just about said it all there, and we all wish Jelly and Soul Rancher a speedy recovery,
Locky, it may be an idea to post a list of checks for meets, like the use of sliding slip matts you mentioned, and the role of ground crew,there are many more, it could be that not all people know the techneque that we use,but if it was made in simple and in easy steps with no short cuts it may be an answer for the short term that could be a help for others, and groups that are just starting up i think they would realy respect such a list,
i hope that none of your or my coments are taken the wrong way by anyone, if so i am sorry and i apologise,and nobody has the right to tell another what they should or not do, its just that you can't teach someone experience, but you can share it, and like you said, its for there own protection and the good of the sport.
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Stevie
use of check lists is a great idea, do you have some that could be shared ?
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2 thing to start off with. yep i agree with everything and i think alot of it was everyone was buzzing with excitment and was trying new thing and that what caused most damage.
secoundly what sprog said
'Joe should not have gone for that double back onto hard ground until he is landing 9 out of 10 of them onto crash mats.' personally my aim was to land on the mat but when doing back to backs i do them in the same spot and normally fall back onto the mats.
and yes i should of had a mat slider but like i said i was just caught up in it all and was trying new things.
2ndly im one of those people that practice and push myself to the max and is very competative (this can be good but also very bad as you have probably all seen)
but by hurting myself is the only way i learn, and is my way of telling myself to slow down and practice more.
i would also like to say in what ever sport you do you will hurt youself at some point, sometimes worse than others. but the danger risk can be reduced with the right safty rules and regulations for each more of trick tryed. (so what matts saying need to be taken)
thats all i have to say.
:)
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I agree that safety is very important and the list idea is a good one (I'm sure it will be added to as we find new ways to have accidents :biggrin:)
I must though speak up in defence of Opal I think he did a great job and would go to another of there meets again
He did organize the meet very well and there were plenty of crash mats and lots of discusion about the safest place to put them when someone was doing anything exotic :biggrin:
From what I can gather Jelly didnt realise she was jumping onto 1 mat until it was to late (we all make mistakes) hope it feels better soon Jelly and we will carry you round walk for life on a stretcher if needs be :thumbs:
And anyone that has Bocked next to Joe will know that short of Nailing his Bl**dy feet to the ground you won't stop him having an accident :haha: I mean he went over at least twice in the pub garden thats why he has had such a metioric rise in skill he takes it all the way (hope the aches arn't to bad Joe :thumbs:)
I have only been to a couple of gym meets and I must say that safety on the whole has always been a high priority yet I managed to nearly break my neck trying a flip when I was tired (my own fault and all safety measures were being used )
So do make safety a priority but remember accidents do happen however many safety precautions you put up (short of saying don't bock in the first place) and we don't want to stifle the free spirit of the sport to much
Jason :Hoofies2:
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Joe this thread isnt aimed at you, but your accident brought to light how easy it is for all bockers, even experienced ones, to have accidents. You are old enough and experienced enough to be able to make choices which may end up with you injuring yourself, but someone could have pointed out to you that a mat thrown in under you may have been a good idea. Whether you took up the offer or not is up to you.
Simple things like this could save you from unecessary injury, so making your progress faster! :)
We need to look at simple ways of limiting the risks to bockers in the gym, and showing that we are a responsible sport.
This thread needs to discuss the different things people can think of that will keep all bockers safe in gym sessions.
Something like:
We need to make sure that we watch each other and if anyone thinks something looks unsafe they need to say so
Mats need to be stopped from slipping as much as possible
Everyone needs to be aware of other bockers around them
Adequate safety gear needs to be worn whilst bocking
You need to take time to learn tricks and ask for help from those around you if you think you may need it
Experienced bockers need to offer advice and help whenever possible
Know your own limits and only push yourself as far as you feel is safe
Safety rules or guidelines that you operate at your gym need to be explained to new people or visitors to the gym
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Soul Rancher, i don't think anything was aimed at anyone mate, Its clear to see that you are right up there with the big guns, and an inspiration to the people you train with, i am looking farward myself to meeting you, and your skill level will enhance our gym, i cant wait to see you in action,
i can speak thrugh experience, i have been injured, and seen some nasty stuf from the guys in our team, thats how we learned, thrugh pain, sweat, and blood, when Brucie did his first back flip ther was no such thing as gym meets for us in them days, it was just him and me on a field, he wanted it so bad, so we padded him up as best we could, even a helmet, As daft as it seems, we didn't even know about knee pads, but i had guest that the knee must be secured into place so i made knee supports out of soundproof foaming, and we used skate board gear for protection, remember this had never been done before in the uk, so we didnt know any better, i was practicaly underneath him the whole time, and then wow, he did it,
the point is that in those days there was no one to advice us on how it could be done safe, not that flips are safe, but im sure you know what i mean, and you remind me of him,with your determination, please take that as a highest compliment, there are not many i would say that to,as i hold Brucie, as most do, in the highest regard,
becouse of people like Brucie and you,we now have ways to look at safer ways of doing things, and i think that is aimed at people who are learning new tricks /stunts, and in this sport we will all,always be learning, and your right in saying we learn from mistakes, most will always respect there own common sence, and the few that take it to the xtreme will always be looked up to, but i have found that sometimes in life its always nice to hear a word of wisdome or direction from an elder, even if it only makes you think about it, if that makes sence,
your going to be at the top of this sport one day soon, so stay safe, and i hope to meet you in person at the gym, we'l have a lot to chat about, thats when Reon has finished with you,lol.
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Soul Rancher, i don't think anything was aimed at anyone mate, Its clear to see that you are right up there with the big guns, and an inspiration to the people you train with, i am looking farward myself to meeting you, and your skill level will enhance our gym, i cant wait to see you in action,
i can speak thrugh experience, i have been injured, and seen some nasty stuf from the guys in our team, thats how we learned, thrugh pain, sweat, and blood, when Brucie did his first back flip ther was no such thing as gym meets for us in them days, it was just him and me on a field, he wanted it so bad, so we padded him up as best we could, even a helmet, As daft as it seems, we didn't even know about knee pads, but i had guest that the knee must be secured into place so i made knee supports out of soundproof foaming, and we used skate board gear for protection, remember this had never been done before in the uk, so we didnt know any better, i was practicaly underneath him the whole time, and then wow, he did it,
the point is that in those days there was no one to advice us on how it could be done safe, not that flips are safe, but im sure you know what i mean, and you remind me of him,with your determination, please take that as a highest compliment, there are not many i would say that to,as i hold Brucie, as most do, in the highest regard,
becouse of people like Brucie and you,we now have ways to look at safer ways of doing things, and i think that is aimed at people who are learning new tricks /stunts, and in this sport we will all,always be learning, and your right in saying we learn from mistakes, most will always respect there own common sence, and the few that take it to the xtreme will always be looked up to, but i have found that sometimes in life its always nice to hear a word of wisdome or direction from an elder, even if it only makes you think about it, if that makes sence,
your going to be at the top of this sport one day soon, so stay safe, and i hope to meet you in person at the gym, we'l have a lot to chat about, thats when Reon has finished with you,lol.
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I really hope jelly doesnt take this in offence but as someone who is responsible for others at gym meets, I absolutely would not allow anyone to attempt a flip onto thin gym mats until they are landing them 80+% of the time on the crash mat. Maybe jelly is at this stage but I am not aware of her landing any flips.
Whilst I agree with the basis of what this thread is trying to achieve, safety, I'd rather the thread wasn't based on incorrect information. To clarify, the flip area consisted of 5 thick crash mats. This was later changed to 4 and reconfigured because it was actually safer to have 1 less mat and have the whole area double thickness. As far as I was aware, what happened to jelly was an unfortunate misconfiguration of the mats (i.e. single thickness & they came apart as she landed), hence the reconfiguration afterwards. The coming apart of the mats actually happened to me too, but as I didn't attempt a flip on single thickness crash mats my fall was partially broken and I didn't sustain the same injuries as Jelly.
At no time did anyone attempt a flip onto a thin gym mat. In fact, it might have been beneficial in Joe's case had he tried to land his double back flip with at least a thin mat.
I am not saying anything was at all the fault of the club organising this meet or the gym owners, but the fact everyone got caught up in the moment and forgot what is safe and what isn't.
From what I can tell, the meet this past weekend was attended by members from several groups and had a lot of fun, but I think the excitement clouded the safety responsibilities.
At no time did irresponsibility reign. The accidents that occurred were VERY unfortunate. However, for people who were not present to say that anyone forgot what is safe apart from those actually performing is simply unfair. There comes a time when people must be responsible for their own actions i.e. look before you leap!
I must though speak up in defence of Opal I think he did a great job and would go to another of there meets again
He did organize the meet very well and there were plenty of crash mats and lots of discusion about the safest place to put them when someone was doing anything exotic :biggrin:
Thanks Jason. I'd like to point out that Jason and I, Toddy & Carma spent a lot of time making sure that crash mats were together and safe, across the 3 stunt areas that we had. I also noticed Jason's friend and bbmthbloke moving mats in the interests of safety (moving the crash mat nearer to the vault horse).
So do make safety a priority but remember accidents do happen however many safety precautions you put up (short of saying don't bock in the first place) and we don't want to stifle the free spirit of the sport to much
Amen, and if we can take further measures to prevent accidents like this occurring then of course we're all for it.
I hope that the message taken forward from here is "Accidents can happen despite best endevours, so follow this guide to ensure saftey" rather than "Make sure you follow this guide rather than getting caught up in excited delirium". Even if you use the latter, let it be known that safety always has been, and always will be #1 priority at IBz Gyms.
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No need to get defensive Opal, I clearly stated I wasnt there and was basing my opinion on what others had said. There was a thread started on pp that said Janelle tried to do a flip on a thin gym mat.
This discussion is not questioning anyones organisation or safety responsibilites.
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Before locky posted this, he did think a few people may get upset or feel it was a post aimed at them, but in all honestly I know it wasn’t. He thought long and hard before he posted it and discussed it with many people before hand.
The aim of the post isn’t to have a go at any of the people injured or the organisers, there were people of all ability at the meet and as mentioned by various people attending, safety was thought about at all times, before and during the meet. IMO this could have happened at any meet regardless of where it was held.
However what came out of this was even when safety was thought about, accidents do and will occur but we need to think about as many precautions / guidelines as possible to help organisers and bockers to get the most out of bocking while staying injury free.
At the end of the day, any guidelines agreed upon by the Powerbocking communities will just be that “guidelines” / "suggestions" it would be up to the individuals / groups to take them on board but they won’t be forced on anyone and as Jason put it the last thing any guidelines would want to do is to stifle the free spirit of the sport.
I feel this is a topic we need to discuss together, throw your ideas about but please let's not get into an argument over what’s already happened and said, instead let’s focus on what the best advise you all can give each other, that will help complete newbie’s to even the most extreme bockers, remember no one is invincible and if the likes of Mik from Swebounce can get badly injured anyone can, so anything we can put together to even prevent a minor accident is worth discussing.
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No need to get defensive Opal
You have no reason to get defensive either Locky. I wasn't having a go at you, but the initial post (which happened to be yours) encapsulated an amount of falacious material that I wanted putting right for the sake of IBz. At no time did I think I was being personally attacked, nor are you being so, but some of what was said could be and I felt was misconstrued.
I don't know the PP website, so I haven't had the (mis)fortune of reading that thread.
I wholeheartedly agree with the rationale this thread is based upon, and of course there are lessons to be learned whenever any accident occurs in any situation. Working in the NHS teaches you that if nothing else. If everyone collectively can make some sort of safety guide / checklist then it's for the benefit of everyone. As others have said, this is probably long overdue, and it might well have helped to avoid some of the accidents that occurred.
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Its good that these Questions have been asked, but i hope we don't see people taking things personal, i have stated in another thread, that it would be wrong to tell some body what they can or can't do,
incase confusion sets in, and this is only my oppinion, why don't you all have a meet were representatives from each group come together, and talk, it would be even better if every one that wants too, attend,
i know it might seem like a logistic nightmare, but realy its quite simple, i could and im sure others could supply a venue large enough, and hey,an official bockers meeting,no polotics, just bocktalk,
it would get more attention drawn to the communinity, and people could ask questions, about who, or what, or why, or anything to do with Bocking, it could be where the likes of guid lines are born,or forgoten,etc, etc,
i know there are meets etc, but this would have to be Bock free, a sit down meeting, even with entertainment i could certainly organise that, like a real corporate event, although, bocking could happen afterwards,
again this is just my idea and oppinion,that we are all entitled to have, and if its a daft idea, at least i have mentioned it.lol.
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The Safety thread wasnt based on anyones meets, it just highlights that we do need to be thinking about safety. And as the IBz was the last meet i guess it made for good recent examples.
I run the EPB gym when Im at home and we take safety just as seriously, and still I broke my leg. Only that example was way more serious and much longer ago, so although it gets mentioned it isnt as relevant an example now. At the time people offered advise, but noone really seemed interested in talking about safety. Now as the community and sport have both grown people are more willing to think about and discuss our safety as bockers.
I know other injuries have been posted on here recently that would add to the need to look at safety both in and out of the gyms - walking into roadsigns anyone? :biggrin:
I think it just seemed an appropriate time to bring up the whole safety idea, so that everyone shares ideas and points that might have been missed! So if anyone can think of anything thats not already been posted stick it up! Means if someone new finds a gym they will have a list of things available for them to think about, and means that we can check that the gym sessions we run are as safe as they can be. It wont stop all the accidents happening, but hopefully it will stop anyone doing anything too stupid! (we can hope!) :)
@Stevie - its a nice idea, but i think it would limit who would be able to contribute. I doubt many of us could afford to travel to a meeting, especially those not in the UK! Newer bockers who might feel happy to post online might not feel happy talking in a meeting, and younger bockers may not be able to attend if parents need to work. I think due to the wide range of bockers (ability, geographically and age-wise) it will be better to keep the discussion on a forum where everyone can air their views? :)
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I new you'd think it was a daft idea,LoL, just an idea, im just thinking of the bigger picture.
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This topic as been posted on a couple of forums so it already cover most active members.
So an in person meet isn't worth it and would limit those who could go ?
Not every person is/can be a member of a group. I live about 40 miles form any others so most of the time a Tigger and I have to hold myself back ( probably why I'm still not very good ). Any safety tips must be able to include people like me to use not just for large groups/gyms ?
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I have the answer for all your safety needs....... bubble-wrap (http://www.packaging2u.co.uk/bubblerolls1540)
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:banana: hey guys just to say i agree with all that is said about safety, but my injury came from my own stupidity as i should of been resting my leg not trying out the carbon fiber springs and woops tear goes the muscle in my leg lol.... :banana:
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Right then, for me this is a more grey area than most who have posted seem to view it, yes i agree that there should be safety at meets, for everyones health we should point out any clear dangers.
but having rules and regulations at meets is only going to slow a lot of progress, im thinkin about our last meet which was in a gym.
Shadon took a p**ser off the double crash matt (two matts up two mats long)landing and still hurt himself, i failed a flip on the gym floor, but these thing will and must be expected to happen, Majority of the sky high guys are the other side of sane, not that we are unsafe to those around us or ourselfs but we bock with the motto "if you aint falling, you aint pushing yourself".
now a lot of the regulations, as with the association and coaching threads will work for some groups, or some from some groups.
its also i great way to f**k a sport up, give it a governing body and someone at the top who "wants the best for the sport" read that as "want to line his own pockets"
Now this isnt directed at toddy or charlie, when talking about governing bodys its my experience in the thai boxing ring that i draw upon, a young sport, new to the country, that now has no less than 3 governing uk bodys.
the head of each association has his own idea of the direction the sport should be taking, in fact there was one of these people on a show called "kiddie fight club" who had his 7yr old fighting world rules in thai land, thats the head of an association right there, betting on his own child in thai land.
now i have said before in my opinion a governing body is less important than say getting some big comps or displays together, i feel this will draw more people in.
I feel opals pain when you have people who were not even attending the meet questioning the safety of the meet, THATS not good for the group or the meet.
Tundrah said you could wrap yourself in bubblewrap, but for me bocking is one of them sports, you would expect a black eye from being a pro fighter, twisted knees from ski'ing
and i expect to get injurys bocking, as i would imagine twisted ankles are the bane of the freerunners.
on sunday i tried a flip in town, the flips was sound other than the fact i took a huge chunk out of and thought i may have broken my finger, a mid air clash of bocks caused it as i tucked, i taped it up to stop the bleeding and continued bocking.
so although i must do whatevery body else has and say i argee with the initial idea of the thread, i dont like the way its evolving.
brendan seemed to say what im getting at in a much quicker way, but i read this topic last night, but knew if i had typed while under the influence then this would have read at ape spreed.
the one last thought i have on this matter, its not a good one though, but extreme meets, or at least an extreme landing at gym meets, have the newer and learners use big padded hard as nails to actually land on crash mats, while those of us who have no relationship with personnal safety can be the madmen we have been and will continue to be.
(wow i dont think i typed that much in a post here EVER :nana:)
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its also i great way to f**k a sport up, give it a governing body and someone at the top who "wants the best for the sport" read that as "want to line his own pockets"
Having known Locky for over a year I know this is NOT his intention and never will be. I am also on the team for the planning of the association and our main aim with it is to take bocking mainstream, not make money. By taking it mainstream we can obtain funding which can be instantly put into clubs that are part of the association, to help with increasing safety and creating dedicated teaching/coaching courses. None of the money will go to ourselves or anyone else, it will just go to clubs, and provide funding for events such as capital bocking. Also to your comment about big competitions and displays, this is exactly WHY we need an association, to organise such things and obtain funding for them.
the one last thought i have on this matter, its not a good one though, but extreme meets, or at least an extreme landing at gym meets, have the newer and learners use big padded hard as nails to actually land on crash mats, while those of us who have no relationship with personnal safety can be the madmen we have been and will continue to be.
(wow i dont think i typed that much in a post here EVER :nana:)
We need to set an example to newcomers to the sport though. If they see people better than them not wearing pads they are instantly going to assume it is okay not to, which is not the case. We need to show what is safe and what isn't, and by disagreeing on this we will cause confusion for newcomers as to what is and isn't safe. They will see one club padded up using crashmats and taking it slowly, whilst another club will have no pads and will be moving very fast and not perfecting techniques. I advise everyone to use pads, if you chose not to and get injured it's your own stupid fault so don't come whingeing on the forum is my opinoin (I have seen people do this).
We need to come to a single, unified stance on this otherwise it will cause both confusion and fallings out between clubs, which will have the knock on effect of the association not working to its full potential.
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Just a thought about the "Slide in crash mats". That in itself is a technique that would need to be perfected. Looking at Joe's video, if the mat was pushed in from behind at the last minute (ooh eer Mrs! ;) ) it could have actually contributed to his injuries. If it was pushed in from the front (in the direction in which he was travelling) it would have been a huge assistance to reduce injury, but it would have been practically impossible to get it under him in time.
It's a great idea and it's got me thinking, but it's not going to be solved easily. Take another look at Joe's crash vid and you'll see what i mean :)
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Ok, So
So far I think we have established that we would like a list of 'things to think about' and 'suggestions for safety' both in the gym, and out of the gym.
We do not want 'a list of rules and regulations' that we must follow.
We want to keep this on an open forum to allow the widest range of contributions, and we want everyone to be able to have a say.
So rather than arguing over the fact that you may or may not want to be told what to do, can we please continue looking at what we might need to think about in order to reduce the risks of injuring ourselves and the other people at the gym with us (even if you chose not to follow them) :)
The aim of this shouldnt be to make a list of rules that you must follow, but to create a set of helpful guidlines that you can refer to in order to make bocking safer for everyone.
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Just a thought about the "Slide in crash mats". That in itself is a technique that would need to be perfected. Looking at Joe's video, if the mat was pushed in from behind at the last minute (ooh eer Mrs! ;) ) it could have actually contributed to his injuries. If it was pushed in from the front (in the direction in which he was travelling) it would have been a huge assistance to reduce injury, but it would have been practically impossible to get it under him in time.
It's a great idea and it's got me thinking, but it's not going to be solved easily. Take another look at Joe's crash vid and you'll see what i mean :)
What about from the side? ;)
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Ok well my first thoughts would be to check everyone is wearing appropriate safety equipment, especially if at a Gym and learning new tricks (a helmet should be almost compulsory) Even those people who are confident accidents can happen, even if it's a sign you didn't see coming..... This should be emphasised to the younger generation and especially newbies. At some of the bigger meets i think there should be at least some people as ground crew and first aiders, maybe not all the time but, whilest some others are on bocks. ie whilest having a break maybe just watching out for safety concerns etc.
It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete before attempting it on bocks (helps to direct where you are going to take off and land etc). A guideline like this might slow people down a bit......
Those people with common sense should maybe just keep people aware of the risks, and slow people down a bit, and even stop someone from doing something if they see something which should be altered. Like the IBs meet, they changed the arrangement of the mats only after someone was injured.
I think you'll always get some people falling over, but it's the prevention of injury that's harder because of the variety of environments we bock in.
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I don't want to go on about Joe's fall out of respect for him, so this has nothing to do with what has,
The tecneque of the push in crash mat is something that could be of help to others, like i said it won't prevent an injury but it could help a softer landing, im sorry if im going on again, i just thought everyone new about it, i will defo try to film on thursday,
it depends on which stunt is performed, as to wher you stand, and the person with the mat has to be strong and alert, with some experience at what is going to happen, talk it thrugh first so that each party no what to expect,then practice at slow safe speed without a full attempt so that the man with the mat knows were he should be for his own safety and the performer, even have a bail, then attempt, after the mat is pushed in, normaly from the side, the man with mat can also help to cushion an impact if it goes wrong, again this should be done with someone that understands the move, and the performer must have 100% respect in the man on the ground, and not even have to think that he is there, just consentrate on the move, that is called the buddy buddy system, used by the Army, were two units become one.
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to be honest it was talked about briefly in Joes case but he had done them before and the aim was to back tuck land and then back tuck onto the matt he didnt travel on his first back tuck which didnt help his cause im not trying to justify anything just thought it should be known that he had landed them before straight onto the mat so we didnt really think the mat being chucked in from the side was to important as he had landed them before that day and not had any issues in missing the mats.
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Paul, mate i wasn't talking about that iether, i was asked a qestion about the teqnique, i know without shadow of doubt that joe is more than confident at what he does, and if you read my other posts you'l understand how much respect i have for him, and i sertainly wouldn't dream of trying to tell him or anyone els what to do, at that level, chears, i would only offer my advice if asked for.
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na wernt having ago or anything wasnt aimed at you either it has just been said a lot through this thread by different people and justr thought it needed to be said
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so we all need to know and get conftible at pushing mat's in at the side when some ones if doing a trick. i feel this would be good for me to try and do other tricks i havent got the balls to do yet
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alltho its a gd idear to push a mat in from the side be being able to do back tucks on the floor it would freak me out if sum 1 push a mat out and would put me off and would flap my arms and would stop the rotation just thort that would b and ishue for some ppl
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It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete
this is the sort of thing i was speaking against, i feel you cannot either judge or enforce what people are doing on there stilts or you will alienate people, the first time i tried a flip was due to the fact i felt ready to try it, i had no crash mat, or list of tricks i had done to make me feel confident in doing it, I WAS CONFIDENT.
now im not saying that i do things the right way, or even in a way that is impossible to damage myself, but i do them my way, when i feel im ready, as should everyone.
this talk of a list of things you should do before you flip to me seems like a good way to fill your head with a load of stuff you shouldn't be thinking about when trying to flip.
Also trampolines may work for some, and not for others, the difference in rotation and weight is immense when you add stilts, so doing it on a trampoline doesnt seem a diffinative way of stoping injury's.
Sprog: i did state that i was talking neither about Locky or Charlie ( i know neither of them , therefore would not cast there characters in disrepute), but people i have known through my life, a lot of them were starting it for the good of the sport was the point i was making, but it always seems theres cream stuck to the side of the pot with these things.
Talking to my friend about it we realized just how long it took people to listen to skaters in the uk, we were aggressive roller blading back in 95 and its only been the last few years or so that skate parks have started to be built around the place to our knowledge.
I dont think having our own playgrounds and such is going to come from sports grants or governing bodys
its gonna come from bockers sweating and making them their selfs.
i but to try and get back to the topic, i would welcome, as would everyone it seems a list of things for people to think about while at any meet, as long as those of us who do have common sense dont have to adhere to it or be shunned be the community
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It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete
cream stuck to the side of the pot with these things.
hehe i like that expreshtion if funny made me giggle :thumbs: :haha:
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Just to make more sence of the pushing mat under thing, that is something that works for certain things, ie backflips, and if someone threw a mat under me without warning i would be very upset with them, what i had said was it must be talked thrugh, not a random thing, and this is something that works for us and some other groups, its only a sugestion that could help, and its nothing new, that was aimed at people that don't know about it, and it only works like i said if two are working as one,
(my quote)again this should be done with someone that understands the move, and the performer must have 100% respect in the man on the ground, and not even have to think that he is there, just consentrate on the move, that is called the buddy buddy system, used by the Army, were two units become one.
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It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete
this is the sort of thing i was speaking against, i feel you cannot either judge or enforce what people are doing on there stilts or you will alienate people, the first time i tried a flip was due to the fact i felt ready to try it, i had no crash mat, or list of tricks i had done to make me feel confident in doing it, I WAS CONFIDENT.
now im not saying that i do things the right way, or even in a way that is impossible to damage myself, but i do them my way, when i feel im ready, as should everyone.
this talk of a list of things you should do before you flip to me seems like a good way to fill your head with a load of stuff you shouldn't be thinking about when trying to flip.
I kinda agree. I think this would make me feel pressured more than if I could do it when I wanted if I was ready. And enforcing that would be crazy and would really I think make some people feel bad. I am not sure what about that idea I really dont like but I like bocking because there is no competition between people other than good stuff and helping each other out and well I dont jump through hoops for tid bits and that would make me feel a bit like that...it could all get very horrible and also being good at some tricks on a list wont improve your safety when trying flips..you will know if you are ready. Doing these tricks wont make you land flips better whn you try. Although there is stupid and for that there is common sense. Most people are big enough and smelly enough to decide for ourselves. Other times there will be abunch around you to advise you not to it
I dont like what happened with air runners in whatever country it is (austalia I think) It just seems a bit like that. Like karate..yellow, black belts ect..wouldnt ever want it to be like that.
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One thing that you should alway have on you anyway is an ICE contact if someone should need it !
In
Case of
Emergency
Emergency services look for this even on your phone ( simplier than calling MUM !? ). :-\
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Spud, i also hope it it doesn't go that way, thats why i keep saying that nobody has the right to tell another what they can or can't do, i'v only spoke about experiences in our team, and things that have helped us,
i think Lockys idea of safe conduct for meets would be for his meets, and anybody that wanted to use that same thing, and if it works i'm sure that others would use it too, the way i see it at the moment is just sugestions, i can't see it being more than that,
and your right, nobody wants there head full of stuf when trying something new, but if someone was trying something new, and someone with greater skill was present you would expect them to advise how to do it best with out hurting oneself, and the forums are the highway for information on Bocking, so it won't hurt to have some kind of list of things that have worked for others, not rules, even if its only for new bockers.
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Ok the safety Idea is good
The Thou Shalt do (or not do) Is Bad
Ok well my first thoughts would be to check everyone is wearing appropriate safety equipment, especially if at a Gym and learning new tricks (a helmet should be almost compulsory)
It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete before attempting it on bocks (helps to direct where you are going to take off and land etc). A guideline like this might slow people down a bit......
Please don't take this the wrong way silenthunter but you have bought up a couple of points I must comment on
Helmets I wore one at the start I (luckily) didn't wear it when I tried to flip onto mats
The general consensus of people that watched the video was that the extra weight and height of a hat would have made a broken neck more likely in the type of accident I had and that 3 mats are suficient to stop concussion :biggrin:
Flips on Trampolines really ???
I have yet to see a trampoline for sale to the public in England that does not have a Bl**dy great sign sewen onto it saying something along the lines of (Do not under any circumstances attempt any type of flip backwards or forwards on this or any trampoline unless you want a broken neck)
Now I will learn to flip on my trampoline and probably have an imprint of said sign on my forehead when I visit the hospital :haha:
Because I personally feel it is the safest way (so I agree with your thoughts silenthunter)
Now best will in the world telling someone to learn to flip on a trampoline is telling them to Ignore the warnings the governing body has deemed to be necessary (easy to fall foul of this saftey thing isn't it )
I think that Wristies are needed just to take bocks out of the box they come in :biggrin: but I would not insist on anyone over legal age wear them because that is their right and we live in a democracy
Over the meets I have attended a few lads have given me quite advice on how to do things safely and I am greatful (you know who you are :thumbs:) This for me is the best way to learn (for others it is different ) but I saw the same thing happening to Clive at sundays meet (by the same lads) and he has come away with lots of new skills and moves and lots of confidence
Jason :Hoofies2:
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Sharing good and bad experiences is a sure way to go..something at the gillingham meet went wrong and we are learning from it. If we share good and bad practice/experiences hopefully we will all have a good idea what is the best way for ourselves and groups at meets to go.
One thing I do think though that people do get caught in the moment. I have been trying to think of ways to reduce risks caused by this. Its a hard thing to do. We are an excitable breed. The only thing I could think of would be to have somebody spotting and looking out for risks. Gym meets are not all that long and if each person could spend like 10mins just keeping an eye on whats happening would it help?
Essentially we are responsible for ourselves tho but I do think it would help if at leasts one person was just keeping an eye on others..trying not to get "caught in the moment" and just being sensible. But you would still have to be resposible for yourself and things. I duno. Its a complicate issue.
Thsi is just an idea...open to critism. Just the only idea I could think of.
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Now best will in the world telling someone to learn to flip on a trampoline is telling them to Ignore the warnings the governing body has deemed to be necessary (easy to fall foul of this saftey thing isn't it )
Definately one of them things, on one side you have someone like paul who, due to his background in gymnastics / trampo feels learning this way would be a a right way to go in his opionion, then you look at actual equipment and theres warnings advising against it!
I would have thought it's the right way to go too, but now reading what you just wrote Jason, it may be something that can not be advised, extremely easy to fall foul of the safety thing :o
Ok, So
So far I think we have established that we would like a list of 'things to think about' and 'suggestions for safety' both in the gym, and out of the gym.
We do not want 'a list of rules and regulations' that we must follow.
We want to keep this on an open forum to allow the widest range of contributions, and we want everyone to be able to have a say.
So rather than arguing over the fact that you may or may not want to be told what to do, can we please continue looking at what we might need to think about in order to reduce the risks of injuring ourselves and the other people at the gym with us (even if you chose not to follow them) :)
The aim of this shouldnt be to make a list of rules that you must follow, but to create a set of helpful guidlines that you can refer to in order to make bocking safer for everyone.
One things for sure thou, I agree completely with what Becky's written, esp We do not want 'a list of rules and regulations' that we must follow. any list should serve merely as suggestions or advise which would be up to individuals or groups to follow or not.
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The learning will come from putting processes in place that reduce the risk of injury. You will never remove it totally.
Learning is the accumulated knowledge of a group of individuals, that is one of the reasons we learned to write as no one can remember everything.
I have contributed to the Association because of my experience in Sport. A number of pitfalls that the sport is heading towards can be avoided by sharing best practice. If we do not learn some one will be hurt badly and the organiser will suffer as they will be deemed responsible.
best Practice includes
Attendance list complete with emergency phone number
Risk assesment and contingencies to mitigate
Medical information on those taking part ( primarily issues such as medication)
Safety Briefing prior to commencement
Proper access to first aid
Good lay out of sport area
With regards to technique development we should put our heads together and develop a process that progressivly improves technique
Not sure this is right but for example Front Summies
1) Technique standing onto a mat
2) Technique from a trampet onto a crash mat
3) Technique on bocks onto large crash mats
4) Technique onto small crash mats
5) Technique onto padded floor
6) Technique onto hard floor
I do not know what the techniques are so cannot comment but at each stage equipment required and safety techniques should also be built into this for an easy to access guide.
I understand that some may think this prescriptive, not sure it is accurate for Bocking but it works in most other sports.
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Naz the stuff on home trampolines is there to cover the manufacturer against a legal action.
To use a trampoline properly it has to be a reasonably sized one with spotters who can help if things go wrong.
using a tramp at home without spotters has to be at your own risk. The manufacturer has absolved them selves of liablility by saying you should not do summies on them.
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So easy to get it wrong Naz yep I do it daily :biggrin:
But I still think a trampoline is the best way to learn air awareness and flipping even if the LAW thinks otherwise (thats why I bought one and the Law is an A** anyway :haha:)
I think that people tend to do that anyway Spud especially with the newbies but a good idea as we all need a break now and then the trouble is that by the time you see the problem the accident is so close you can't do anything or has already happened (hind sight is the only true 20/20 vision :biggrin:)
I have noticed a lot of negative mentions of getting caught up in the moment
I for one find that for every accident this causes there are 99 cases of getting that new move or extra couple of inches height caused by getting caught up in the moment
Atheletes call it getting into the Zone I believe (my version is Oh S**t Did I really do that :haha: )
Jason :Hoofies2:
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I think that people tend to do that anyway Spud especially with the newbies but a good idea as we all need a break now and then the trouble is that by the time you see the problem the accident is so close you can't do anything or has already happened (hind sight is the only true 20/20 vision :biggrin:)
I think you half got what I meant. I was not thinking of that person doing waiting and shouting "oh S*** they are gonna fall somebody fling a crash mat at them" but more looking for things like say where there are not enough crash mats in place or one has moved. Somebody is about to try something knew and nobody is spotting them ect. You could be right. it may be to late sometimes but surely it wont hurt and could help often. As you said we all need a break every now and then. it woudlnt be hard to put into practice either.
I think most times the spotters close by would spot things like this but not every time.
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A number of pitfalls that the sport is heading towards can be avoided by sharing best practice. If we do not learn some one will be hurt badly and the organiser will suffer as they will be deemed responsible.
best Practice includes
Attendance list complete with emergency phone number
Risk assesment and contingencies to mitigate
Medical information on those taking part ( primarily issues such as medication)
Safety Briefing prior to commencement
Proper access to first aid
Good lay out of sport area
I wholeheartedly agree with this, and I think we will do a mandatory roll call + essential information collection at the start of all our future gyms.
With regards to what Spud said about spotting and making sure gym mats are put back together, at every gym meet, sometimes you have a spotter, sometimes you don't. Perhaps it could be a courtesy thing that the last person to do a trick onto mats ensures they are corrected to a standard that they would be happy to jump onto them again themselves, for those times when you don't?
Just a thought.
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Agree 100% Spud people looking after the saftey mats are a must they move every time you land on them and have to be put back I spent a lot of time doing just that while Rancher was trying the Car flip ( good fun to watch from the front so why not watch the mats while your there)
And I found that the people resting do tend to say things like "put another mat there" or even just do it while they rest and like you say it can only help and if we ask everyone to watch when they have a moment it might just save an accident
Just one other side to it Spud a bit of a stretch I know but believe it or not I can get shy sometimes :biggrin:
On sunday all the top bockers (you know the ones :biggrin:) were jumping off a wall onto a path and straight back up onto another wall
Now I could jump down or up but not enought bottle to do both together
Everyone moved to another spot a few yards away so I went back and tried it on my own I got it after a few attempts and the last thing I would have wanted was someone watching (silly I know but just me) maybe not safe but the way I work best
So while I agree with keeping an eye on people it has to be tempered with some thought I have seen a few people quitely trying something stop when a lot of people get round them due to being embarrased so sometimes just watching at a distance to help after a fall is better even though it sounds wrong
Jason :Hoofies2:
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best Practice includes
Attendance list complete with emergency phone number
Risk assesment and contingencies to mitigate
Medical information on those taking part ( primarily issues such as medication)
Safety Briefing prior to commencement
Proper access to first aid
Good lay out of sport area
ok as a scout i have seen and filled in tones of forms that ask for contacts permitions, medical permitions ie permition to treet patien with out adult/gardian pressent ect ect...
a form can be found here http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/forms/index.htm and then look at residential form... if this could be used/adapted for use by bockers (ignore the first page) then it could cover some of the points raised above.
it would be up to the club or group to deside what they did about keeping them (mby in a file???) any way that was just a suggestion feel free to support or slate depending on your views lol i certainly dont want to get us bogged down in paperwork and red tape...
as for the layout of the sport area it will differ from gym to gym and again depending who attends the session. I realy think that that is just a call upon common sence, and definatly something to do at the beginging of the session
I also agree with jason i get shy particualy when surrounded by loads of realy impressive bockers (again on sunday) but then when one or two were giving me advice i was realy greatful.
calum
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Thats a valid point. I remember my first trip to the bradford gym. I was so shy about meeting the b-bounce guys I nearly didnt take my stilts (I was playing taxi for kiola). My concerns couldnt have been more wrong and I soon learned that this sport attracts very friendly and outgoing people.
Paperwork will come as this idea develops. Right now we need a checklist for developing groups who are new at organising meets. Hopefully we'll get the first draft of this up tomorrow and people can add or change it as they see fit.
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Perhaps it could be a courtesy thing that the last person to do a trick onto mats ensures they are corrected to a standard that they would be happy to jump onto them again themselves, for those times when you don't?
Just a thought.
now ive only been to one gym meet but we were all very insistant that this was done after each time the mats moved anywhere, and anyone near the mats was happy enough to do it if the last person had forgotten, courteys as you say, but i figured that would be standard and true of all gym meets.
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aye i thought it was a kinda unwritten rule.....chapter 5, section 3, paragraph 5, if i remember rightly... :D :P
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Yeah, i always kick the mats back to the right place after all my jumps and flips onto them. Just kinda did it automatically.
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It's a minor point but it could have disastrous consequences. You'd be surprised how some people can be ignorant and leave the mats in a mess.
It goes back to common sense not being quite so common, which is why we need this checklist available for people asap. Hopefully we'll have the first draft up today and people can add to it where needed :)
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im loving the not so common sense line
and locky your starting to sound very responcible for someone who only like crazy peoples :nana:
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I have to say that through out this thread people have been VERY understanding and tactful. Which, is something that made me feel happy about the comments made. Opal came in and rectified some of the misunderstandings, and the nice thing is, people were almost waiting for one of us to explain our side. I left this to Opal as he very much is the gym king, and to be honest, I couldn't be 100% sure of anything I was going to say, as my memory is sh*t. However, I can merely say, as I know all of you are aware, Toddy, Opal and I always discuss things very carefully and are very very open to the lessons that should be learn't here. The only thing I have to say is that although we do have Tok and Lee who are working hard on their flips, we had never actually had any previous experience of 'serious' trickers. So certain things we are to be expected to learn with experience. I do have to say, the number of injurys was an extremely bad coincidence. Which we will learn from of course.
However I do want to thank EVERYONE who commented on this thread and how they have thought things through, and wording everything well and clear, not to mention fully understand that no one was at fault and it is just something that we all need to keep at the back of our minds. I think we have all learn't something from this :).
-Carma (The Bocking Rocker)
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Carma i think thats down to how much of an actual community a lot of us feel we have through the sport and the forums, its young as we are in it, and we can all learn loads more through each others ideas as we can on our own.
now i loved the line "common sense is not that common" i just found this image and had to post it
(http://spoiledjuice.com/pictures/big/12113161561205540723868.jpg)
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im loving the not so common sense line
and locky your starting to sound very responcible for someone who only like crazy peoples :nana:
Wait til u meet me or talk to me in chat. Everything shall become clear then!
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Agree 100% Spud people looking after the saftey mats are a must they move every time you land on them and have to be put back I spent a lot of time doing just that while Rancher was trying the Car flip ( good fun to watch from the front so why not watch the mats while your there)
And I found that the people resting do tend to say things like "put another mat there" or even just do it while they rest and like you say it can only help and if we ask everyone to watch when they have a moment it might just save an accident
Just one other side to it Spud a bit of a stretch I know but believe it or not I can get shy sometimes :biggrin:
On sunday all the top bockers (you know the ones :biggrin:) were jumping off a wall onto a path and straight back up onto another wall
Now I could jump down or up but not enought bottle to do both together
Everyone moved to another spot a few yards away so I went back and tried it on my own I got it after a few attempts and the last thing I would have wanted was someone watching (silly I know but just me) maybe not safe but the way I work best
So while I agree with keeping an eye on people it has to be tempered with some thought I have seen a few people quitely trying something stop when a lot of people get round them due to being embarrased so sometimes just watching at a distance to help after a fall is better even though it sounds wrong
Jason :Hoofies2:
Yea I get what you are saying jason. Important thing is that you knew of the risks and at the end of the day well you are wise enough to decide for yourself. You knew what you were doing and did so at your own risk. Thats what we do when we practice on our own.
Also thanks for agreeing with me :thumbs:
:spudT:
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You don't have to thank me for that Spud your right :thumbs: and wait till you get it wrong I'll disagree with you :haha:
im loving the not so common sense line
and locky your starting to sound very responcible for someone who only like crazy peoples :nana:
You've got a good point there Nero
To the person posting as Locky "Who are you and what have you done with the Loony Locky we all know and love" :haha:
Jason :Hoofies2:
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I have to say having somone just keeping an eye on aspects of safety through a meet would be good, and thank you spud for repeating about having someone spotting!! I would also like to make clear i meant "guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips" as though you have a list of tricks with increasing difficulty. You don't have to do them in order, just if you are looking for something to learn then will give you ideas.
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Jason, ha ha, iv met locky quite a few times he realy is loony h ha.
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I've found another solution:-
Cotton wool (http://www.apretique.co.uk/acatalog/COTTON_WOOL.html)
Cotton Wool Bale
• Quality cotton wool bale
• 5lb (2.27Kg)
Product Code: Ref: ET9005
Price: £11.99 (Ex VAT)
( £14.09 Including VAT at 17.5% )
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I think you're on to something there :biggrin: :thumbs:
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I've found another solution:-
Cotton wool (http://www.apretique.co.uk/acatalog/COTTON_WOOL.html)
Cotton Wool Bale
• Quality cotton wool bale
• 5lb (2.27Kg)
Product Code: Ref: ET9005
Price: £11.99 (Ex VAT)
( £14.09 Including VAT at 17.5% )
That'll cost too much !
A big sack of wood shavings for £8 ( or less ;) ) is cheaper.
Where can you get them from ( He who's work in a timber yard ) :biggrin:
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now i loved the line "common sense is not that common" i just found this image and had to post it
(http://spoiledjuice.com/pictures/big/12113161561205540723868.jpg)
DEAAAAAAAADPOOOOOOOL! ;D ;D ;D
He's so awesome. Can't wait to see him in the wolverine movie :D
*Completely off topic* :P
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I have to say having somone just keeping an eye on aspects of safety through a meet would be good, and thank you spud for repeating about having someone spotting!!
Oops sorry..only just realised you had said it before me :banghead:
You don't have to thank me for that Spud your right :thumbs: and wait till you get it wrong I'll disagree with you :haha:
I hope you do Jason!!! If I am being an idiot please kick me one..or I will never know or learn :thumbs:I've found another solution:-
Cotton wool (http://www.apretique.co.uk/acatalog/COTTON_WOOL.html)
Cotton Wool Bale
• Quality cotton wool bale
• 5lb (2.27Kg)
Product Code: Ref: ET9005
Price: £11.99 (Ex VAT)
( £14.09 Including VAT at 17.5% )
That'll cost too much !
A big sack of wood shavings for £8 ( or less ;) ) is cheaper.
Where can you get them from ( He who's work in a timber yard ) :biggrin:
Woah...bail of hay only £1!!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
:spudT:
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Bail of Hay at £1 Spud
I'll take 2000 of them at that price at one point last year it hit £5 a bale round here :biggrin:
Jason :Hoofies2:
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Bail of Hay at £1 Spud
I'll take 2000 of them at that price at one point last year it hit £5 a bale round here :biggrin:
Jason :Hoofies2:
oo arrr, we be from narfolk we be ;)
(there should eb some kind of sheep icon..think of the possibilities.... :P :D)
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Bail of Hay at £1 Spud
I'll take 2000 of them at that price at one point last year it hit £5 a bale round here :biggrin:
Jason :Hoofies2:
I've never spent much time in school, but I've taught ladies plenty.
It's true I hire my body out for pay, ahey, hey.
I've gotten burned over Cheryl Teigs, blown up for Rachel Welch,
but when I wind up in the hay, it's only hay, hay, hay.
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Bail of Hay at £1 Spud
I'll take 2000 of them at that price at one point last year it hit £5 a bale round here :biggrin:
Jason :Hoofies2:
Not a giant bail but pretty big! Barley hay too. :) cheapest part of keeping the chickens. 30kg of corn came off the same farmer at good value too for a £5
And ooh argh chocl8 I be from this here place called norfolk. random...Lol I used to speak a lot dialect but nobody understands you! I went to canterbury once and was asked if we had cars!!!!
Can we have a sheep emote please...or chickens...gotta love chickens :)
Wow we are so off topic :laugh:
:spudT:
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Mr Common Sense is going to be an office poster !!!!! love it
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Sorry about this Spud (please don't set DK on me :haha:)
But that isn't Hay you've got there you get straw from Barley
Hay only comes from grass
But you can get straw from any of the cereal crops Oat, wheat, barley
And it is normally a lot cheeper than hay
Jason :Hoofies2:
Ps yes I am a horse food anorak I will only feed our horse something I have tried :biggrin:
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Sorry about this Spud (please don't set DK on me :haha:)
But that isn't Hay you've got there you get straw from Barley
Hay only comes from grass
But you can get straw from any of the cereal crops Oat, wheat, barley
And it is normally a lot cheeper than hay
Jason :Hoofies2:
Ps yes I am a horse food anorak I will only feed our horse something I have tried :biggrin:
Lol! I dont know....thats why I let my dad sort that bit out. I do the cute things with the chickens like clean out there poo, wash thier feeders :-\ Collect the eggs..Teach them tricks, hug them :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: They are all round cuties and I love them :) But I dont eat thier food!!!! Although I have eaten fish food, hamster food, rabbit food, a various selection of rabbit treats...ooh yummm carrot cruncher.
You just have to look very careful at the food you are eating...them rabbit poos look horribly simular to the food :S
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This topics about safety at meet not food !?
But then again we now know it NOT safe to leave the food to Jason or Spud to sort out :laugh:
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well it is good that we have got that one sorted
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ok just so that you all know that i have got some non slip matting and we are going to see how good it is, at this gym meet.
so when it is set up we have all got to try and move the matts by jumping on to them.
if it is good we as a group will buy enough of it to do all mats
as well we will tell all the other groups what it is abd how much it costs. and i will try and get a bulk discount
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Ha! thought I'd forgotten about this hadn't you?
I had. Plus I've been busy. and drunk. Anyway.
Below is the FIRST DRAFT of what is a vague (short n sweet) of basic gym safety.
Feel something is missing? Want something changed? NOW is the time to speak up.
As stated earlier, these are not rules or regs for anyone to follow. It's a simple list that will be made available to help people organising gym meets with some guidance.
- Suitable protection should be worn by all people using the gym.
This includes Wrist Guards and Kneepads as a minimum. Elbow pads are also recommended, as is a helmet if attempting flips off of mats. - When new tricks are being attempted, there should always be a member of ground crew present or at least another bocker spotting.
- Never attempt anything you are not 99% confident on, unless you have assistance or a spotter
- Until you are landing at least 90% of your flips, you should not be attempting them on hard ground or thin mats.
- If sliding mats underneath someone, it should always be done from the side, not from the front or back, to avoid collision between the bocker and the slider.
Someone needs to be responsible for the session and needs to make it clear at the start of each session. The following list are items that the person responsible should consider.
- Emergency contact details taken
- Risk assessment & Area check completed
- Equipment Check Completed
- Medical Information checked
- Safety briefing completed
- Safety officer designated
- Medical kit/bag
- Individual Personal Equipment Check completed
- Code of Conduct for Participants
When we have a final version, I'll get it onto word/pdf/html docs and basically make it available everywhere.
So have a read and voice your thoughts.