set-up options for running

[Vibel]

Comletely comitted to getting a set since I first discovered PJs a couple of days ago. Until I'm next in the green again though thought I'd ask some questions (more as a poor substitute to ownership and to pass the time really).

The issue of running has been brought up several times, but I was surprised by the answers. I like the idea of antigravstyle jogging but consensus seems to be its not effective except with much effort. Now I'm wondering whether this depends on the springs at all.. people tend to go for one or two sizes up as these give more air, so you put in more energy to compress the springs and therefore more energy is released to propel you upwards. Obviously doing this on every stride is hard work, but conversely with lower rated springs your own weight might do more of the work.

I could be completely wrong of course. What's peoples experience of running with correct size (or even one size down)? Does it make any difference? Might be an option to have two sets of springs, one for running one for tricking, or else buy according to use.

Additionaly, I think I read the foot plate is adjustable in the vertical plane, maybe this can contribute to a more running oriented set-up as the energy is transferred forwards as opposed to upwards? I sort of feel this might have been part of the design principle, i.e. the reason why the footplate is adjustable and the weight ratings are out by 10kg - anyone in the know?

In other questions what shoes are recommended, sneakers (i.e. flat soles) or trainers (rougher sole but probably tighter fit)?

sorry bout the essay - advance ty for input

[Wally247]

Hi Vibel...

Skips are ajustable on the vertical plane i dont know that pjs are...

7leagues do different size of springs depending on what you want them for... so you may have a point there. (sorry if i cant say that Naz just edit it if you have to)

I like to weare convers as i feel i have more of a conection with the pjs ( not in a weird psycic way more as in i can feel them) but ir all varies a lot of ppl use skate shooes... its really all personal preference. just makesure the bindings will hold your foot tightly. you may have to pad the bindings out... thats what i do

hope thats helpfull, im not the most knowlegable so its just what i have experienced.
 

[Dark Knight]

Hiya Vibel welcome to the world of Planet Bock.

Many of your question can can found in the "Before you buy" section but I'll do my best to help you here.

www.projumpforum.co.uk/index.php?board=9.0

A simple answer to the question on how much effort it take is about the same as it would take to cover the same distance on foot but you'll be a lot quicker getting there !

 The reason for going for bigger spring that they can store more energy so can help in gaining height and also distance. This does mean you have to put more effort in but then again you will get more out ?
 If you use a spring of your own weight it well compress a lot and when running althought you a bounce in your step you could get more on a bigger spring. Going under size is a bad idea The stilt will bottom out ( maxium compression ). It will not break the spring but they wear quickly and not give you much bounce.
 Basically the bigger the spring the more power you can put in the more power you can get out !

 On most models the footplate are not adjustable, not in the way your thinking ! If you wish to alter the angle on the footplate add a wedge ? But I think you'll find that doesn't make much difference ?

 The type of shoe you use is really up to you ? Some wear boots others sports trainers as long as foot is a snug fit and the bindings can pulled tight any shoe will do, but it does need to be able to fit tightly on and to the back of the footplate !

 While you are waiting to order, check out the forums help and tip sections so you know what to do and not to do when you finally rip open the box open and pull your stilt out of the box and go WOW !

[Vibel]

thanks guys, most helpful, and for the welcome!

I have had a bit of a read around and there's loads of references to tilting the footplate (via stabiliser rods I think, maybe on diff models?), either to get heel below toes or vice versa - largely it seems for balance issues. My thinking is that tilted forward you'll have a tendency to lean, so the force is directed more forward to increase the length of your stride and not the height. Not sure how much of the energy is passed through the strut that connects hoof to footplate.. but if so: more forward thrust if tilted.

As for springs, like you say, more power in more power out, but when running you're not putting in much downward force, therefore high rated springs will not come near max compression on the jog. Lighter springs will compress more under your own weight with every step so store more potential energy for less physical exertion (again, only theorising here) although the maximum energy they can hold is less - which is why you get less height out of them. But sure I wouldn't go undersize.

I'm just thinking if theres something in it, this might encourage a lot of the people looking for practical use (transport). Personally I'm interested in both.

Also I've been reading too much, so I'm gonna think I know what I'm doing and faceplant first thing

[Dark Knight]

 Even when running you have to push down to over come gravity. The tilt plate only allows you bend your toes to give you a little extra push ( although I've never used them ? ).
 There is a maxium to how far forward you can lean forward when running before you loss grip and the hoof slides backwards and you fall over.
 Stilt running is a fine balance between bouncing and striding too high a bounce you lose forward speed too little and your hoofs drag the ground and you trip up. think of how you run and double it ?
 
 I'm on the maxium weight range of my poor old M110 springs and once I've been on them a couple of hours and start to get up to speed, I can feel the spring reach the point on bottoming out each time I push down/backwards. Which becomes very off putting, it's alway best to go up one size at least !

 Your are think way ahead of yourself most of us are happy the way stilts are set up, try it that way first before trying to workout a different way. Remember " if it's not bust, don't fix it !".

 I told you there lots to read, and by the way there's a topic where you can post us some details about yourself, so we can help you better if you need it. For starters where do you live ? There could be a bock just up the road ( as been know to happen ! Ask Jason !? ). Here the topic link for you.

 www.projumpforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=293.0

[Wally247]

Most welcome Vibel...

well let me know how your experimentation goes it will b interesting to have some answers...

I will have a look at my springs and see how much movement you can get out of the side rods. Word of advice... learn to bock normaly before you start messing with the set up lol hopefully this will avoid said faceplant!!!
i agree with DK abotu the if its not broken dont fix it lol

but they often break and you may aswell test a theory while fixing

[Vibel]

haha, quite right I am getting a bit ahead of myself! after all I genuinely do not know what I'm talking about at this point and I cant bock yet so blah, just theorising on the mechanics. I more or less know I'm going for the M100s (I'm 86kg) so theres not much debate there. but rest assured i will be testing and hopefully come back with something useful to share.

I gave the shop a call and they said the footplate wasn't adjustable (dont know what to believe now) but it would be on the elites (whenever they're coming - they told me two months but I dont want to cause speculation) not sure I can wait anway!

back soon with bocks, oh and in London by the way

[darfgarf]

if you don't get powerskip pros (the ones with footplates that tilt back and forth with your ankle, very expensive  )

then you're limited to a fixed angle on your footplates however you do them, i personally find tilting the plate back, so the toes are higher than teh heel helps with compressing springs/going upwards, so one would assume tilting forwards would give slightly less compression and slightly more forward propulsion

important note: make sure you know EXACTLY what you're doing if you decide to play with the stabiliser rods, if you get it wrong you can destroy the whole bock(s), and i'm sure even pro-jump customer support has a point where they'll say no you broke it, so we're not replacing it

you will probably want the same 10-15kg or whatever higher than your weight for the springs regardless of what the intended use is, the bock themselves add nearly 10kg to your weight, and they compress a surprising amount during normal running/jogging (as opposed to intentionally bounding from one foot to the other like you're an astronaut)

edit: well if you're in london, a very warm welcome to you sir XD
(i'm back in surrey from august, look to jason/clive of the hanworth banned for meets till then :p)

[Bbmthbloke]

hi un welcome

also rer london,  you could pop along to the 'walk for life' start on sunday and say hi... u might even get a go if u ask nice )  there will be a fair few of us there and im sure will get thru ya questions in no time.


its on south baNK Next to tower bridge.  there is a thread on it somwheres

[Jason]

I can run as far on my bocks as I can without them  (not far ) but I think if you did run a distance every day you would become used to the action as I did have a while when I couldn't jump due to injury and after a few weeks I found I could jog on them quite a distance before running out of steam

As for the tilting footplate on skips it does make it easier to run just on the basis that it feels more natural

Jason 

[Vibel]

Thanks for all the comprehensive answers and experiences all.

Sounds like theres quite a lot of you in london (makes sense)  - won't be making the 'bock for life' I'm afraid but thanks for the invite!

seems there's some evidence for at least a slight benefit in a tilted footplate, but fixed angle would mean you need to plan what you'll be doing to get the most out. I've got pitiful stamina at the mo so yea I'll need to train up but thats the idea after all! - makes going for a jog infinitely less dull I expect!

unfortunately I'm more of the 'if it ain't broke, how much can I muck around before it needs fixing it' kind. a buckled bock will probably put me off though as its not really fixable, so useful heads up. there's plenty on it in the set up section I think so I'll head over there first.

[darfgarf]

'if it ain't broke, how much can I muck around before it needs fixing it'

i like you already XD

loads of bockers hiding round london, most probably aren't even online/in a group etc, which is silly

best thing to do would be jump in, then get used to normal bocking, once you get the hang of things then you can start playing with things like footplate angles