Halloween Bock Problem

[Jason]

I have waited 24hrs before posting this as I wanted to think about it

Let me start by saying that I have the greatest respect for any bocker that can do the high spectacular tricks and flips
It takes a lot of practice and a lot of courage so please keep this in mind as you read the rest of this post and read the whole post before answering

The Halloween Bock was started by The Invictas, The Hanworth Banned and a few independants 2 years ago with the intent of wandering round london in fancy dress as a bit of a laugh (Toddys original idea)

It is an opportunity for the less tallented bockers to get a bit of limelight and find out what it is like to be the center of the photo frenzy that the spectacular bockers get at every meet

My fond memorys of the first meet are of Jellys nose constantly falling off, Clives teeth refusing to come out, laughing till I was crying several times, Dancing in the forbidden lower bit of Trafalgar Sq by invitation and all who attended being flash blind for 2 days after 

We did get asked to move from the south bank due to the other performers asking if we would go as they wern't taking any money due to us being so popular

The second year we were more numerous and basicly the same happened and we visited all the venues we did this year
We had our photos taken with both police and specials and they only asked us to move when we caused the pavements to get blocked with photo hunters (They even helped at one point later when it was just a few of us by supporting me )


Now the Bad bit
I'm afraid that despite enjoying myself this year the overwhelming memory will be of us being moved on from every venue that we normally use except one
At Leicester Sq I was told that we had been given a "Debock or leave Westminister within 15mins" by one of the constabulary
Due to us being moved on we lost a number of bockers that had spent a considerable amount of money on their costumes and it was only by luck that they had a good time anyway

I have thought about it and the only difference this year is we had Bockers that could flip and do big tricks this year (we had almost as many number wise as last year)

Now I do understand that there are places that you can protect and flip etc safely, but I saw Leicester Sq on sunday night and I would personaly say that it wasn't the wisest move in a crowd like that
Before anyone jumps down my throat I didn't see the flips due to my costume and it may well have been perfectly safe but I would doubt it

I have stood guard for flipping bockers many times in the past and when we had a small crowd at the paladium I like to believe we did it safely

On sunday night the police (or specials) obviously thought it looked dangerous and had a duty of care to ask us to stop

I have heard a lot of anti special (and police ) talk over the years on bocking sites but I would like you to put yourselve in their position for a moment

There were a lot of small children running about on sunday night (I had to avoid many) and a 6yr old hyped up on orange juice candy floss and Halloween can travel at amazing speed and could run out into the path of a flip

The PC's thoughts are of picking a kids brains up off the pavement

We are all perfect until we make a mistake and if flipping was a perfect science we could do it without anyone to watch our backs

Also be aware that if such an accident were to happen the person doing the flip would rightly be charged with manslaughter dure to doing something he/she knew to be dangerous in a public place (this could carry a big jail sentance) and the jury wouldn't be made up of people like us

So if you are in any doubt that you would be convicted go and explain all the circumstances to your parents and see if they would jail someone that had brained you at 6yrs

Sorry to put this spin on  the night but there is sometimes a Flip or Die attitude at meets and although most meets the guys that can do spectacular stunts make the day sometimes it gets a little out of hand

Two things that could come of this
1----- Bocking wouldn't benefit from the press coverage of such an accident
2-----NO BOCKING signs are very cheap and the local council could easily stick them up at all our best venues (like no skateboarding signs)

A few people have said that the event could do with a bit of organisation it has been kept informal to keep the friendly feeling
We could make it a fancy dress only (no tricks/flips) meet but that would curtail a lot of peoples fun and I wouldn't like to do that
I have no problems with people doing tricks and flips as long as it isn't to the detriment of the local bockers venues and feel it makes the meet if it dosen't get the local Police's backs up


London is the main bocking venue for several clubs and we would like to keep the police sweet

I'm sure Locky and Q will agree with me that if a group of bockers turned up at Cardiff Bay or the Hoe (is "Hoe" right Q  ) and proceeded to p*ss off the local bobbys that they have worked so hard to keep sweet they would be ever so happy !

Sorry it is such along post and I would like to assure everyone that I hold no one to blame in any way it's just that we want to hold the Halloween Meet for many years to come as it can be enjoyed by all levels of bocker

If anyone has any issues with the above please post on this thread rather than the main Halloween one (keeps that one happy)

And finally (yes really Finally  ) I am posting this as The Hanworth Banned Founder not I repeat NOT as a Projump Mod so feel free to speak your mind (within the realms of good taste  )

Jason 

[dark-castles2]

Ok I read most of it, but am a little confused as to what you are getting at, I was not there unfortunately but I am still confused as to what you are getting at :S YOu want people to take more care when flipping (Im not the best to comment on that) or you want to give everyone a chance to be seen??
DC

[Paul-Self]

From what ive read seems their were flips being done unsafely with no spotters either end to shout no / stop people walking behind the guys doing them and then the pcsos and specials thought it was dangerous.

[Jason]

Yes and no Paul

I didn't see what was happening and it could have been safe but the Police didn't think so

If you had seen the crowds and the number of tots running around it would make more sense DC

What I was getting at was for 2 years we have had no flipping/big tricks and no Police involement

This year we had spectacular bocking (Flips/tricks etc) and were basicly run out of town by the Police

Does this sound like a coincidence to you

At covent garden no big crowds and cobbles and we didn't get moved on yet the security there are very quick

There are plenty of meets where flipping is the main draw but Halloween the main thing is people want there pic taken with us which dosent happen if we are getting moved on all the time

Just one more bit of news that I have only come by

Clive, and several other bockers went to Leicester Sq some time after we left and didn't trick but were told to move on due to our behaviour earlier
2hrs later I went back on my own looking for the lost bockers and got a fab response from the 2 cops on bikes they wanted me to stay

I am not against flips etc but if you are getting moved on by the police all the time perhaps it is time to look to your own behaviour before blaming the police as getting moved on is a rarety for me and although I don't bock to high levels I do look dangerous when tricking

Jason 

So I rest my case

Jason

[Locky]

Well rather than this be a two-sided thing I'm just going to give my opinion whether or not people agree with my view.

I was late arriving in london and didnt make it to the london eye so we met up with the rest of you at the strand/trafalgar square. We all hung out on the main junction roundabout for about half an hour. Due to the concert in the square Carl and myself had already discussed about seeing if there was space for us at the back wall of traf square, in the exact same spot there was for CB07 (which also had a concert on when we were there). Although staying on the roundabout was a good safe spot for us, we must have caused  quite a distraction for drivers and pedestrians on what is already a busy and fast moving junction. I really hope I was not the only person who noticed this at the time.
We did move to the back of trafalgar square to the area which I thought was perfect for us given the situation. We had a flat, dry walkway which we could quite easily manage. There were times when people were flipping and there were no active spotters that I could see and I quickly put myself in this position. I'm sure many people are confident at flipping but with members of the public so close, it would only take a slight mishap and a bocker could be quickly hurling themselves uncontrollably towards the crowd. My job was to become that person who got smashed into, should the worse happen.
Generally, people need to watch their backs and the backs of others a lot more than they do.
There was no police involvement at trafalgar square and we were not asked to move on by anyone.

When we moved on to Leicester square I could immediately see we had a different situation. Fairground rides, shops in all directions, uneven surface and hundreds of people. I actually was in the 2nd wave of bockers to arrive here as a few of us held back at traf sq to wait for jason. I dont know what crowd we caused (seems there was a crowd there anyway) or how much space we made for ourselves but it didn't seem safe at all and generally not an ideal location to stay at.
Covent Garden was dead. Plenty of space and a few people stopping for photos. I see no problem with that at all.

Overall I think regardless of how this meet developed, its a major bocking event now and it needs some organising in place. I couldn't help but notice I was the only person to put up a phone number on the forum. Little old me from wales who couldnt find big ben if I was sat on the bell.
If Dan (RR) hadn't text me earlier in the day I wouldnt have his number and wouldn't have been able to call anyone to ask them if they had left the eye yet and we'd meet them at trafalgar. Chris's mum wouldnt have been able to call me to tell me where they were and to find out where we were when they got lost/left behind (we'd already parted from the main group unfortunately).

I do love how this meet is about dressing up and having light hearted fun but I also see that flipping is a big part of this sport and no reason why we cant organise something where both can be welcome without any big fuss. I had a simple costume that I could bock in and remove in seconds but it was still very effective and called for people to want pics with. I do think this is not a meet to push yourself or do something new. If you are a confident performer then great we can find a way to accomodate it but this definately isn't the meet to try that first flip on concrete.

I think in the future it should be kept down to either one location or at most 2. Even if there are no organisers as such, there should still be key people who put themselves forward as a contact and to round up the troops so to speak.

On a positive note, I absolutely love meets like this and really miss the type of atmosphere that we get like this and at CB. I do think we should have name badges on though
The only reason we come together like this is through a shared love for this sport and that in itself is absolutely brilliant.

[Jason]

I agree with all of that Locky

I was at a disadvantage due to a very limited view and hearing in the dragon I didn't realise that the move from trafalgar was not caused buy police but thought someone said they had asked us to clear the path at the top due to that tent thing restricting the gap but that could have been someone trying to get me moving away from my adoring public  so I apologise for that error

Yes flipping etc should be integrated into the meet and a lot of bockers will help with safety but the people doing the flipping can't just expect others to spot for them as a lot of people don't have your experience or want to enjoy the costumes or having their photos taken

Perhaps the guys that flip could organize something amongst themselves and bring extra ground crew to marshal the crowd or at least only flip when someone like yourself deems it safe to do so or they are sure that several people are spotting for them

So as we all seem to have decided we need a bit of organisation would you accept the job of "Safe Flipping Officer" 
All kidding aside you have a lot of experience with what is safe so all it would involve is "Ask Locky before you flip" at each new area we go to and if you decide it has become dangerous we stop for a while and/or move on

I agree about the lack of Phone numbers but a lot of that was bad luck as Clive had my number and didn't have his phone
Chris had my number and we kept missing each others calls (to be rectified with a hands free next year on my behalf)
A lot of the others have my number and I thought as you had put yours up that would be enough

Still don't know how Clive ,Chris etc all ended up heading for the eye at 9pm looking for us though but when I got through to them they got back

As a last bit The Banned will be meeting up next year for halloween on the 31st as usual
I'll even try to be early this time as I get off work at 4-30 so if you lot  could be at covent garden around 5 I will meet you all there 

Jason 

PS despite all the above it was fab to see you all and I had a great time so thanks for all coming I know some of you traveled a long way

[dark-castles2]

I know this if going to be a little of topic but o well...
I have noticed that a lot of you say organizing is a bad thing and it doesn't really work, But I think really a lot different, look at the most planned event this year (Walk For Life) This was planned and organized really well, and we had a record amount of people there. Yet at CB, Halloween etc. we didn't have as may people and times and dates didn't work out properly, look at the massive fail of CB.
So I was just wondering why we are on topic of bigger events, what happened the first 2 years that hasn't happened this year?
p.s. left out gymfest

[Nero]

well not being there i wont comment on your troubles, other than to say its a shame the police desided to ask you all to move, but i will add that ANY bocker who is up for going into a city centre and flipping around the public should have PLI as standard, as should ANY bocker who works on stilts

[toddy]

i feel i should add something in as well

now you lot should have notised i didnt even want to do it this year or even turn up (one thing is my car is now smashed up) and the other thing is that i felt that last year was nice. but it would be such a pain with more people or even people who just want to trick.

now i set up the halloween meets for us to have fun and not even need to bounce. and it was a success, both years.

i agree with jason and he know i know alot about health and safety. and tbh i think flipping at night is a bad idea. and to any of you who want me to prove that a pro bocker can still nearly kill them self i will. but naz will have to ok it. and it isnt nice.

so if need be i may have to orgnise the next years one. if nothing else happends (touch wood)

[Jason]

Hi Toddy thought you had retired 

You are welcome to the job if you want it mate and are you gonna be there next year (I missed you  )

Nero what can I say except you are Right (Totaly right) any idea where I can get it as everyone seems to have stopped doing it

DC I didn't say that organisation was a bad thing
What I said was that we liked the casual type of meet that Halloween has always been

As for lack of organisation I would disagree CB seems to been canceled this year because initially no one wanting to organise it and then to many people trying to organise it and all giving up

Halloween was fine untill a few problems caused by people flipping and tricking where the Police thought it was unsafe
So if you want organisation the first bit could be "No Flipping" that would solve the problem and only upset the minimum of people but I believe that would be wrong and picking on a small group

Surely we are grown up enough to be self regulating not to need someone to tell us when we are being stupid and causing problems

Would you be happy at a meet where you had to stand in line to request permision to do a flip and then wait again until it was your turn and had to refrain from running until you were told you could

I personally would prefer anyone who is able to perform the fab tricks and flips to take a look round and decide if they thought they were going to cause the group to be moved on by the Police and if this was so to refrain from doing it until safe
Easy way to learn is if you are moved on regularly you are getting it wrong

And the attitude of "Silly Police" is a cry heard in courts all round the country shouted by "Silly Criminals" 

Jason 

[toddy]

i may have to then jason
saying that after i posted earlier i had a few ideas on how to make i like the first one.

and i did really want to come, but you should have a look at my lovley bmw it isnt nice, and i dont want to drive it too much, done the drivers side in

[Jason]

Shame about the car mate

But we would love to see you try and get to the next meet

Jason 

[Mini Ellis]

Right
We were asked to move on from trafalgia sq as we were on stilts flipping or not, they weren't worried about flipping but even walking was a problem with them.
If the guys can't flip then what's the point in going (for people who flip mainly anyway) yes health and safety I know but everyone was spotting Locky and I for sure.
I can see why the halloween meet was started but bocking evolves, so you can't stop people progressing sorry that's what happens when you get better and practice.

So basically I can see the point but I think it's gone too far we are all as dangerous as each other at the end of the day and if in costume and with limited view well if you trip over a child you could still do serious damage.

And like I said most places had a problem with any running jumping etc so you can't just blame it on flips.

But at the end of the day - it's done no-one died so it's not a major issue to be dwelled on.

[Greggles]

Thank you Hannah I know for a fact that this post s aimed at me carl and Jake tbh when it comes down to filps I am one of the most cautious people befor I do anything I look around torughly Evan as I am jumping to do back summies I look behined me mid jump o e bouncy befor doing one I know for a fact most of you if not all of you whom have posted hardly saw the flips so have no place commenting on if we were or were not doing them safley and like Hannah said who's to say one of us won't fall over whilst walking and do some damage to ourselves or to others as you well know jason from your wrist a few years back so yes like Hannah said what's done is done we put on a good show to the people of London and no one was hurt (as we were checking everything)

Let it go

Greg out

[dark-castles2]

Hanna, sorry I saw it and find it a little weird :s I flip and mainly flip now but the reason I go to big meets is to see everyone to have a good time, I don't care if I can't flip at the point, It is just nice to see others
Don't mean to rant just think it is stupid if people won't go just because they are not allowed to flip
DC

[Mini Ellis]

Well DC that's what it will come down to, no flipping well to be honest then they won't see the point in coming.

DC were you even their?
And my name is spelt Hannah

[Jason]

Ok Folks

Try reading the post

I said that I have no problem with people Flipping or doing tricks it is part of what bocking is about

What I do have a problem with is irresponsible people causing the police to become worried about what we are doing and then arguing with them untill they tell us to "Debock or leave westminster in 15 mins"

Anyone who thinks that is the right behaviour to make bocking a popular sport would not be welcome to any meet I was holding anyway

It was not pointed at Greg or Carl and I am sorry you think it was

I have worked with Carl and Paul Flipping in a crowd and found them to be very safe
I have not worked with you in a crowd but when I have seen you flip you have always seemed safe and aware

I personally think that Big Tricks can be more dangerous than flipping as lots of people are watching and spotting with a flip but most big tricks are done alone

Just an instance for your concideration that I saw first hand was a split kick that landed on a puddle and sent the (Very Experienced) bocker slamming into a bridge support
Trouble was that there was a very little girl and her mum  infront of the support
Luck and no small amount of skill saved the day but the result really would have been a disaster and the bocker was visably shaking for an hour after with the thought of what could have happened
This was at a very well  organised event and the trick was in a place that was much safer than Leicester Sq

And Hannah surely the aim when we go out bocking is to be able to go out the next time be it running, tricking or just walking
If the police take enough of an interest we will face the same restrictions as Skateboarding does and meets will have to be held away from any crowds if they are allowed to be held at all

The aim of the post was not to stop any type of activity while bocking but to make people aware of the dangers we are facing

I have had several people PM me to say thankyou for posting this as they wanted to make similar comments but were worried that they would get a bad reaction

The main concern wasn't that we attracted the Police but that several people were arguing with them and making the situation worse (I didn't see it so don't know who was to blame)

By all means do as you want at a meet but when we all get Banned permanently from town centers due to our behaviour don't be surprised by the reaction of the rest of the bocking community to the few who cause it

I will repeat this again
I blame no one and the point of this post is to extent the life of bocking into the future and try to get people to work with the police and learn that there are certain times when we must not do certain things

I mean if I was asked to "walk" through a primary school playground on an icy day while the kids were playing I would say NO

There were plenty of opportunitys to Flip and Trick during the meet but even Locky was worried about Leicester Sq so perhaps we should have not flipped there

The move on at Trafalgar was a sensible thing to do due to our normal area being restricted by the tent thing

I have also been told that the group were moved on from the south bank due to flipping when asked not to by wardens
But I can't comment on that as I only have is second hand so to speak

Like you say lets let it rest

Just one simple request

Try to be self policing and keep bocking safe and happy for all levels then we might all be able to Bock where we want (whithin reason  )

Jason 

[dark-castles2]

Sorry missed of the H, No I was not there. However I have been to other big meets. Personally I think if you speak to most stilters who can flip, they would gladly come to a meet that big even if they are not able to flip for health and safety reasons. If not then they need to grow up and realize it is not all about them and going to the meets is all about meeting new people, and catching up with old friends
DC

[bendover90]

hey guys

i was at this meet and i was with carl and greg as the were flipping in the square, we had cleared a area for us to bock in and there was 6 of watchin out for pedestrians crossing thourhg the circle, i do not feel that these tricks were performed unsalfey, its the publics problemn if the walk under/near a bocker when they are trying to complete a trick and get us land on them.....its stupidity on there part, in the other hand, if i/we make a mistake and land on a bystander then thats a different kettle of fish.

at the end of the day bocking IS AND ALWYAS WILL BE dangerous, but if some little comonsense is shown then no one shoudl bget hurt.

 

[webmaster]

Hey all, I think the point is been missed in this thread and its gone exactly how Jason didn't want it to go. I know Jason wasn't trying to blame any individuals he was merely stating that its important to be more aware of your surroundings, think about the risk factor, keep it sweet with the people in authority and just be aware that any "dangerous behaviour" on events could in turn take away the local groups bocking playground.

At every event there's things you can learn and improve upon and as with gym meets its good to have certain ground rules but at the end of the day it boils down to common sense - any person on a pair of stilts is always going to be more dangerous than the average person just walking, as a bocker it's your responsibility is to assess the situation and make sure any person near by and you yourself is safe.

Hannah & Greg its lovely to see you back on the forum, but sad that you felt you were targeted in the post as I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case, hope to see you guys posting as PJF misses the EA's

[Locky]

its the publics problemn if the walk under/near a bocker when they are trying to complete a trick and get us land on them.....its stupidity on there part

Thats not entirely true and definately not the best attitude to take. We must take some responsibility for this, especially in a pedestrianised area.

I must admit I knew Jason's intentions on this thread but I also felt the finger was being pointed at carl, greg and jake.

With meets like this, it's very hard to lay down some ground rules or even emphasize some common sense. People talk about organisation etc but in my view the only person who really tried to organise this was DK, and he actually got shot down for trying too hard. With hindsight it's very easy to spot the mistakes etc and we can learn from them for future meets. I do think however, simply saying we never had trouble with the police in previous years but suggesting people being unsafe was the reason the PCSO kicked us out of leicester square is quite poor judgement.

[Small]

Jason

I love the fact that you are not only protecting the future of the sport but also all that take part. I think every one should say thank you for just simply saying "guys an gals don't go over the top and please double check your not going to hurt yourself or others" 
No one should take offense or be upset by any comments as I'm sure we all want meets/events to be perfect and any suggestions to make things run any better should be welcome.

The London meet was amazing and the only down side was being moved on and I'm sure you like me would not want this to be a regular accurance. 

So thank you to all who have time to say "guys/gals maybe next time....." 

Small

[webmaster]

Small, if we had a facebook style "like" button on this forum I would have clicked it for your post

[Spud]

Small, if we had a facebook style "like" button on this forum I would have clicked it for your post

Just had the same thought with locky's post. Install one!!

[webmaster]

great minds and all that