Norwich council

[hybrid_hex]

I will bring all of these concerns up with the people if/when they get in contact with me, and try to figure out the best possible outcome.

[Trixter]

yea i dont mind doing displays tho in the slightest,

[Gixer]

OK so the main points raised so far are:

• worry over "who" we would be teaching
• insurance cover
• a place to teach - need a gym, equipment
• how regularly should classes be
• personal safety and discipline
• structured "term" of lessons - say, 8 lessons is one "term" - anyone who wants to join mid- "term" has to wait till the next one starts (saves having to revisit old ground)
• WHAT would be taught?  Structure of lessons?
• payment/expenses
• qualified people to teach ("instructor" or "coach" rating, or something??)/CRB checked etc etc

Anything else?

[Dark Knight]

OK so the main points raised so far are:

• worry over "who" we would be teaching
• insurance cover
• a place to teach - need a gym, equipment
• how regularly should classes be
• personal safety and discipline
• structured "term" of lessons - say, 8 lessons is one "term" - anyone who wants to join mid- "term" has to wait till the next one starts (saves having to revisit old ground)
• WHAT would be taught?  Structure of lessons?
• payment/expenses
• qualified people to teach ("instructor" or "coach" rating, or something??)/CRB checked etc etc

Anything else?

To tell you the truth I think it sound like a nice idea but it just not going to work !?
It's nice to show people what their like so maybe take them and display at different places what their like. If someone want like the idea of a pair we could lets them have a go then let them have a quick wobble on them !?

Then again isn't that's more or less what would happens at a meet !?

[Charlie B]

Sorry for the length of this but here goes

There is a need for some clarity

As a group or a "club" you can decide how you want to develop and who you want to involve.

If you want to chase additional funding then you will have to deliver the aims and objectives of your possible funders.

In most councils case they are looking to provide diversionary activities for targetted sections of the community or they may also just want to support young people

The best way is not to chase funding but develop the group in the way you want and be true to yourselves and the spirit of your sport.

As a sport the deveopment needs to be around getting more people involved in "clubs" This will allow the sport to become recognised by Sport England which will then significantly increase the profile and if we get a recognised National Governing Body possibly support funding. This in turn will allow the sport to access other sport related funding streams at National, regional & possibly local level.

Allowing people to get involved in doing a sport (taster sessions) is a proven way of getting more people into any sport. This is also true of any marketing or sales initiative. The key to success is A.I.D.A

Gain ATTENTION, create INTEREST, Develope a DESIRE for ACTION

With regards to coaching sesion structure a significant part of this is already laid down to national guidelines across at present the 58 Sport England accredited sports.

The Lincoln Event structure follows some of these presets in skills development

I do not want to get into symantics but what you are looking to do is provide coaching not teaching, that is very different. Teaching is very specific and forms part of the National Curriculum and requires different skills to coaching.

What most of you guys do (and are begining to do very well) is coaching

The sport is at a very interesting stage of development and will create questions such as those being asked. There is no single route forward.

 

[Gixer]

Here here Charlie......I think we (including me!) should put our stereotypes on the shelf, see what we can do and what sort of person gets brought our way for coaching, and use this opportunity to get ourselves a gym and full equipment where we can ALL benefit from it and learn cool stuff without breaking our backs (crash mats YUMMMM!)  If we all need to get personal insurance then so be it.....we will get lots of recognition for Bocking as a sport/hobby, etc, we may all get something out of it if these kids turn up with the right attitude and want to learn, and if word spreads about what we're doing we can use that to get gigs and displays all over Norfolk 

I say do it - if it falls flat then hey at least we tried, if we never do it then you get the "what if??" factor........

[Charlie B]

  well said , nothing to add

[Jason]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before and not to put a damper on things as I think this is a good idea and would like to see it happen

But

You would also need a wide range of protective gear (all with the correct kite marking or whatever is in use now)Not cheep as a lot of the cheep ones are not fully marked (even if they are safer than the real ones)

That would mean (for 10 trainees) 10 sets of elbow/knee pads and 10 sets of wrist guards and helmets (as these come in lots of sizes and fit is important) you would probably need 30 sets of various sizes and as we know they do get damaged and one fall can write off a good helmet

I say this because if you put someone on Bocks without all the gear or badly fitting gear no amount of insurance will stop them suing you

Also you can get them to sign a disclaimer (as we do for paintball) but even that is pushed aside in court if you are found to be negligent in safety proceedures and the disclaimer can work against you as the prosecutor will say you knew it was dangerous and still let people do it (for this reason good insurance is needed with the insurers having imput in the safety setup)

All the accidents I have seen and heard of were while learning or trying something new so teaching people to use bocks and advance in the sport is going to have to be very safety orientated

Don't let this put anyone off as it is a good idea but make sure you cover your A** so you don't get stiched up in the long run

Jason 

[Spud]

I still think we need to find more abot this to see what they can provide and more in general.

[Sx Nutta]

best for them to bring their own safety gear, then you can not be held responsible

[Dark Knight]

best for them to bring their own safety gear, then you can not be held responsible

But how would they know it's the right gear !?
I'm with Jason it's needs a lot of sorting out !

"JUMPING-JAXs" never took off as an aerobic class because the number of pair a teacher would need to stock !?
http://www.projumpforum.co.uk/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=198

[Charlie B]

The additional safety gear at Lincoln is being provided by the centre, this is extreme sports stuff they use for skate boarding & BMX so should be acceptable.

Same goes for insurance as they have the expertise.

The coaching set up comes from me and the parcour/gymnastics guys as we are all qualified coaches which helps ref Health & safety and risk analysis.

There will always be injuries in any sport if you have done the correct risk analysis and have proper medical equipment and trained people available you should be able to minimise both accidents and also possible litigation

If the Council are asking you to work with them this should be covered at you first meeting

[Gixer]

best for them to bring their own safety gear, then you can not be held responsible

They won't want to buy the gear if they think they may not get into the sport properly?  And if they sign a disclaimer but it can be pushed asaide by lawyers then is there any point in having a disclaimer? 

We need to get someone from the Council who knows all about this to work with us in making it watertight and making sure nobody will get sued.  We also need to ask them about THEM buying equipment for the kids to use, ie "hire bocks".

[Spud]

Sounds like the right way to go..Just need to get talking

[Charlie B]

If you do begin your discussions with the Council they will work with you to find partners.

If you do the diversionary stuff you will be able to get others to fund ie Youth Service & Police particularly. But you will have to address thier needs and target the people they want to work with.

As a club you could hold come and try it sessions where people pay say £2.00 for a 10  min try.  This should gain you £12.00 per hour per pair if managed properly

[Dark Knight]

As a club you could hold come and try it sessions where people pay say £2.00 for a 10  min try.  This should gain you £12.00 per hour per pair if managed properly

A little problem there !?
That would mean the second one lad takes the off thew next would need to put them on !?

10 minuets goes not a bad idea would be just time to give them a chance to do a solo wobble, and get them wanting more   
But I don't think it you should include the time it takes for you to help them put them on ( checking it's all safe ) !?

[Gixer]

OK - so someone needs to formulate a letter to these two Council women, laying it all out and asking them how they can help us and who they can work with to help us, also asking about legalities and insurance for a venue.   Strike while iron's hot before they forget about us

PS I bocked to work today, hilarious - honkings and wolf whistles all the way 

[Dark Knight]

PS I bocked to work today, hilarious - honkings and wolf whistles all the way 

Well stop wearing short skirt on your Bocks then   

[Dark Knight]

PS I bocked to work today, hilarious - honkings and wolf whistles all the way 

Or was that you honking 

[Locky]

if they sign a disclaimer but it can be pushed asaide by lawyers then is there any point in having a disclaimer? 

There is no point. EVERY premises that the public are getting access too (free or paid for) needs to have insurance.
You know when you go to a Go Karting centre and they make you sign a waiver? It's a load of BS. They have insurance and if you were to injure yourself or die then you could sue them for lots and lots of money (or your next of kin could because you'd be dead). The waiver is simply a smokescreen. Most people do not know the law. They remember signing the waiver and think oh well I got whiplash, my bad luck. In reality, any injure sustained in any sports environment could lead to legal action but 1. its not free and 2. its a long and complicated process.

Kinda like people suing local authorities for tripping over uneven concrete slabs.

[Spud]

JUst speak to the guys before we fret too bad!

[Jason]

The disclaimer can work both ways most of the paintball ones are along the lines of

I understand that this is a fairly hazadous thing to do and if I don't follow all the safety rules that have been explained to me and any instructions I am given I may get hurt, maimed or even killed

The main reason for the disclaimer is that in court it acts as a signed confession so if you do something silly like take your mask off and loose an eye the court will find against you but if the bloke in charge tells you to take your mask off then they will find for you

Simple common sence but if you as a trainer make a mistake the insurance company will take up the slack and bail you out but it won't stop you from being prosecuted for causing an accident by plain stupidity

Jason  

[Spud]

I got the best one ever in thatland. So funny. I will post it up when I find it.

[Trixter]

i dont think we should teach

[Gixer]

Hex have you contacted these Council people yet?  Got to keep the contact going while we're still in their minds...........