Safety at meets

[Spud]

Sharing good and bad experiences is a sure way to go..something at the gillingham meet went wrong and we are learning from it. If we share good and bad practice/experiences hopefully we will all have a good idea what is the best way for ourselves and groups at meets to go.

One thing I do think though that people do get caught in the moment. I have been trying to think of ways to reduce risks caused by this. Its a hard thing to do. We are an excitable breed. The only thing I could think of would be to have somebody spotting and looking out for risks. Gym meets are not all that long and if each person could spend like 10mins just keeping an eye on whats happening would it help?

Essentially we are responsible for ourselves tho but I do think it would help if at leasts one person was just keeping an eye on others..trying not to get "caught in the moment" and just being sensible. But you would still have to be resposible for yourself and things. I duno. Its a complicate issue.

Thsi is just an idea...open to critism. Just the only idea I could think of.

[webmaster]

Now best will in the world telling someone to learn to flip on a trampoline is telling them to Ignore the warnings the governing body has deemed to be necessary (easy to fall foul of this saftey thing isn't it )

Definately one of them things, on one side you have someone like paul who, due to his background in gymnastics / trampo feels learning this way would be a a right way to go in his opionion, then you look at actual equipment and theres warnings advising against it!

I would have thought it's the right way to go too,  but now reading what you just wrote Jason,  it may be something that can not be advised, extremely easy to fall foul of the safety thing  

Ok, So

So far I think we have established that we would like a list of 'things to think about' and 'suggestions for safety' both in the gym, and out of the gym.

We do not want 'a list of rules and regulations' that we must follow.

We want to keep this on an open forum to allow the widest range of contributions, and we want everyone to be able to have a say.

So rather than arguing over the fact that you may or may not want to be told what to do, can we please continue looking at what we might need to think about in order to reduce the risks of injuring ourselves and the other people at the gym with us (even if you chose not to follow them)

The aim of this shouldnt be to make a list of rules that you must follow, but to create a set of helpful guidlines that you can refer to in order to make bocking safer for everyone.

One things for sure thou, I agree completely with what Becky's written, esp We do not want 'a list of rules and regulations' that we must follow. any list should serve merely as suggestions or advise which would be up to individuals or groups to follow or not.

[Charlie B]

The learning will come from putting processes in place that reduce the risk of injury. You will never remove it totally.

Learning is the accumulated knowledge of a group of individuals, that is one of the reasons we learned to write as no one can remember everything.

I have contributed to the Association because of my experience in Sport.  A number of pitfalls that the sport is heading towards can be avoided by sharing best practice. If we do not learn some one will be hurt badly and the organiser will suffer as they will be deemed responsible.

best Practice includes

Attendance list complete with emergency phone number
Risk assesment and contingencies to mitigate
Medical information on those taking part ( primarily issues such as medication)
Safety Briefing prior to commencement
Proper access to first aid
Good lay out of sport area

With regards to technique development we should put our heads together and develop a process that progressivly improves technique

Not sure this is right but for example Front Summies

1) Technique standing onto a mat
2) Technique from a trampet onto a crash mat
3) Technique on bocks onto large crash mats
4) Technique onto small crash mats
5) Technique onto padded floor
6) Technique onto hard floor

I do not know what the techniques are so cannot comment but at each stage equipment required and safety techniques should also be built into this for an easy to access guide.

I understand that some may think this prescriptive, not sure it is accurate for Bocking but it works in most other sports.

 

[Charlie B]

Naz the stuff on home trampolines is there to cover the manufacturer against a legal action.

To use a trampoline properly it has to be a reasonably sized one with spotters who can help if things go wrong.

using a tramp at home without spotters has to be at your own risk. The manufacturer has absolved them selves of liablility by saying you should not do summies on them.

[Jason]

So easy to get it wrong Naz yep I do it daily  

But I still think a trampoline is the best way to learn air awareness and flipping even if the LAW thinks otherwise (thats why I bought one and the Law is an A** anyway  )

I think that people tend to do that anyway Spud especially with the newbies but a good idea as we all need a break now and then the trouble is that by the time you see the problem the accident is so close you can't do anything or has already happened (hind sight is the only true 20/20 vision  )

I have noticed a lot of negative mentions of getting caught up in the moment
I for one find that for every accident this causes there are 99 cases of getting that new move or extra couple of inches height caused by getting caught up in the moment
Atheletes call it getting into the Zone I believe (my version is Oh S**t Did I really do that   )

Jason  

[Spud]

I think that people tend to do that anyway Spud especially with the newbies but a good idea as we all need a break now and then the trouble is that by the time you see the problem the accident is so close you can't do anything or has already happened (hind sight is the only true 20/20 vision  )

I think you half got what I meant.  I was not thinking of that person doing waiting and shouting "oh S*** they are gonna fall somebody fling a crash mat at them" but more looking for things like say where there are not enough crash mats in place or one has moved. Somebody is about to try something knew and nobody is spotting them ect. You could be right. it may be to late sometimes but surely it wont hurt and could help often. As you said we all need a break every now and then. it woudlnt be hard to put into practice either.

I think most times the spotters close by would spot things like this but not every time.

[Opal]

A number of pitfalls that the sport is heading towards can be avoided by sharing best practice. If we do not learn some one will be hurt badly and the organiser will suffer as they will be deemed responsible.

best Practice includes

Attendance list complete with emergency phone number
Risk assesment and contingencies to mitigate
Medical information on those taking part ( primarily issues such as medication)
Safety Briefing prior to commencement
Proper access to first aid
Good lay out of sport area

I wholeheartedly agree with this, and I think we will do a mandatory roll call + essential information collection at the start of all our future gyms.

With regards to what Spud said about spotting and making sure gym mats are put back together, at every gym meet, sometimes you have a spotter, sometimes you don't. Perhaps it could be a courtesy thing that the last person to do a trick onto mats ensures they are corrected to a standard that they would be happy to jump onto them again themselves, for those times when you don't?

Just a thought.

[Jason]

Agree 100% Spud people looking after the saftey mats are a must they move every time you land on them and have to be put back I spent a lot of time doing just that while Rancher was trying the Car flip ( good fun to watch from the front so why not watch the mats while your there)

And I found that the people resting do tend to say things like "put another mat there" or even just do it while they rest and like you say it can only help and if we ask everyone to watch when they have a moment it might just save an accident

Just one other side to it Spud a bit of a stretch I know but believe it or not I can get shy sometimes 

On sunday all the top bockers (you know the ones  ) were jumping off a wall onto a path and straight back up onto another wall
Now I could jump down or up but not enought bottle to do both together
Everyone moved to another spot a few yards away so I went back and tried it on my own I got it after a few attempts and the last thing I would have wanted was someone watching (silly I know but just me) maybe not safe but the way I work best

So while I agree with keeping an eye on people it has to be tempered with some thought I have seen a few people quitely trying something stop when a lot of people get round them due to being embarrased so sometimes just watching at a distance to help after a fall is better even though it sounds wrong

Jason 

[Wally247]

best Practice includes

Attendance list complete with emergency phone number
Risk assesment and contingencies to mitigate
Medical information on those taking part ( primarily issues such as medication)
Safety Briefing prior to commencement
Proper access to first aid
Good lay out of sport area

ok as a scout i have seen and filled in tones of forms that ask for contacts permitions, medical permitions ie permition to treet patien with out adult/gardian pressent ect ect...

a form can be found here http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/forms/index.htm and then look at residential form... if this could be used/adapted for use by bockers (ignore the first page) then it could cover some of the points raised above.
it would be up to the club or group to deside what they did about keeping them (mby in a file???) any way that was just a suggestion feel free to support or slate depending on your views lol i certainly dont want to get us bogged down in paperwork and red tape...

as for the layout of the sport area it will differ from gym to gym and again depending who attends the session. I realy think that that is just a call upon common sence, and definatly something to do at the beginging of the session

I also agree with jason i get shy particualy when surrounded by loads of realy impressive bockers (again on sunday) but then when one or two were giving me advice i was realy greatful.

calum

[Locky]

Thats a valid point. I remember my first trip to the bradford gym. I was so shy about meeting the b-bounce guys I nearly didnt take my stilts (I was playing taxi for kiola). My concerns couldnt have been more wrong and I soon learned that this sport attracts very friendly and outgoing people.

Paperwork will come as this idea develops. Right now we need a checklist for developing groups who are new at organising meets. Hopefully we'll get the first draft of this up tomorrow and people can add or change it as they see fit.

[Nero]

Perhaps it could be a courtesy thing that the last person to do a trick onto mats ensures they are corrected to a standard that they would be happy to jump onto them again themselves, for those times when you don't?

Just a thought.

now ive only been to one gym meet but we were all very insistant that this was done after each time the mats moved anywhere, and anyone near the mats was happy enough to do it if the last person had forgotten, courteys as you say, but i figured that would be standard and true of all gym meets.

[chocl8]

aye i thought it was a kinda unwritten rule.....chapter 5, section 3, paragraph 5, if i remember rightly...  

[Athoul]

Yeah, i always kick the mats back to the right place after all my jumps and flips onto them. Just kinda did it automatically.

[Locky]

It's a minor point but it could have disastrous consequences. You'd be surprised how some people can be ignorant and leave the mats in a mess.

It goes back to common sense not being quite so common, which is why we need this checklist available for people asap. Hopefully we'll have the first draft up today and people can add to it where needed

[Nero]

im loving the not so common sense line
and locky your starting to sound very responcible for someone who only like crazy peoples 

[Carma]

I have to say that through out this thread people have been VERY understanding and tactful. Which, is something that made me feel happy about the comments made. Opal came in and rectified some of the misunderstandings, and the nice thing is, people were almost waiting for one of us to explain our side. I left this to Opal as he very much is the gym king, and to be honest, I couldn't be 100% sure of anything I was going to say, as my memory is sh*t. However, I can merely say, as I know all of you are aware, Toddy, Opal and I always discuss things very carefully and are very very open to the lessons that should be learn't here. The only thing I have to say is that although we do have Tok and Lee who are working hard on their flips, we had never actually had any previous experience of 'serious' trickers. So certain things we are to be expected to learn with experience. I do have to say, the number of injurys was an extremely bad coincidence. Which we will learn from of course.

However I do want to thank EVERYONE who commented on this thread and how they have thought things through, and wording everything well and clear, not to mention fully understand that no one was at fault and it is just something that we all need to keep at the back of our minds. I think we have all learn't something from this .

-Carma (The Bocking Rocker)

[Nero]

Carma i think thats down to how much of an actual community a lot of us feel we have through the sport and the forums, its young as we are in it, and we can all learn loads more through each others ideas as we can on our own.
now i loved the line "common sense is not that common" i just found this image and had to post it

[Locky]

im loving the not so common sense line
and locky your starting to sound very responcible for someone who only like crazy peoples 

Wait til u meet me or talk to me in chat. Everything shall become clear then!

[Spud]

Agree 100% Spud people looking after the saftey mats are a must they move every time you land on them and have to be put back I spent a lot of time doing just that while Rancher was trying the Car flip ( good fun to watch from the front so why not watch the mats while your there)

And I found that the people resting do tend to say things like "put another mat there" or even just do it while they rest and like you say it can only help and if we ask everyone to watch when they have a moment it might just save an accident

Just one other side to it Spud a bit of a stretch I know but believe it or not I can get shy sometimes 

On sunday all the top bockers (you know the ones  ) were jumping off a wall onto a path and straight back up onto another wall
Now I could jump down or up but not enought bottle to do both together
Everyone moved to another spot a few yards away so I went back and tried it on my own I got it after a few attempts and the last thing I would have wanted was someone watching (silly I know but just me) maybe not safe but the way I work best

So while I agree with keeping an eye on people it has to be tempered with some thought I have seen a few people quitely trying something stop when a lot of people get round them due to being embarrased so sometimes just watching at a distance to help after a fall is better even though it sounds wrong

Jason 

Yea I get what you are saying jason. Important thing is that you knew of the risks and at the end of the day well you are wise enough to decide for yourself. You knew what you were doing and did so at your own risk. Thats what we do when we practice on our own.

Also thanks for agreeing with me 

 

[Jason]

You don't have to thank me for that Spud your right  and wait till you get it wrong I'll disagree with you 

im loving the not so common sense line
and locky your starting to sound very responcible for someone who only like crazy peoples 

You've got a good point there Nero

To the person posting as Locky "Who are you and what have you done with the Loony Locky we all know and love" 

Jason 

[theonlysilenthunter]

I have to say having somone just keeping an eye on aspects of safety through a meet would be good, and thank you spud for repeating about having someone spotting!! I would also like to make clear i meant "guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips" as though you have a list of tricks with increasing difficulty. You don't have to do them in order, just if you are looking for something to learn then will give you ideas.

[Claire]

Jason, ha ha, iv met locky quite a few times he realy is loony h ha.

[tundraH]

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[webmaster]

I think you're on to something there   

[Dark Knight]

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